TZ problem is killing me UPDATE

[pinball god]

I have a major switch matrix problem and/or 'Salm tilt' error. I started this thread a while ago but my cpu got fried so I have waited until I got it back and have commence heaps of troubleshooting. I have to say that after tonight's big session I am very tired and confused, so I hope what I explain here isn't full of furphy's  

I origianlly had a ground short error but that's gone. Then I had several switch columns all lit up. I have at present switch column 8 pretty much all up only or I can get a slam tilt error (to be explained later).

I have followed pinrepairs guide pretty much to the max (a) can discount the cpu and 10 opto pcb as errors disappear when I unplug J206 & J208 and I have tried 2 sets of cpu/10 opto pcb as well and get the same results (b) did the diode activation of the pins on the cpu and got the all clear (c) checked all swicthes 3-4 times to see for obvious shorts (none found) (d) checked all the switch diodes that have the slip on centre pin connection and found no errors. I haven't gone through and unsolders the other switch diodes yet.

So what I did today was look under the clock and found a bare wire but that didn't solve anything. So I went to disconnect some plugs. I disconnected the clock plug that has the white wires and presto the slam tilt error disappeared. Went into switch edge test and found all but the auto fire, mini PF top & mini PF exit and Right ramp optos were dead. Connect it and slam tilt. I can't see any obvious flaws. I then connected my old clock pcb (my current clock pcb is the led one) and the slam tilt when away even with the the white wire plug connected but the auto fire & right ramp are dead only.

[pinball god]

If I activate either of the mini PF optos they activate as the should but the auto fire and right ramp optos are still dead. I then looked at the auto fire and pulled off a wire that was just hanging on and resoldered it. Same problems.

I decided to disconnect the auto fire plug and the Mini PF switches & right ramp switch work. But when activating either mini pf switches the auto fire switch activates as well.

I then buzzed out the cable that goes to the auto fire and mini pf and found that the mini pf single grey wire beeps on the auto fire grey and black wires. The mini pf black only beeps on the auto fire black. I couldn't see anything obvious and so cut the grey wire, plugged in the new clock pcb and got "SLAM TILT" error. I didn't try with the old clock pcb before reconnecting the wire 

Hope this isn't too confusing for someone to see something abvious. Help would be greatly appreciated.

[Caveoftreasures]

Find someone in melbourne (a member here on the forum) who has a Twilight Zone and go and have a good look at their wiring and take a camera or a video camera.

All it takes is 1 x wire to be off, or soldered on wrongly and u will have problems galore.

Also, i am not sure whether all of your boards have been tested properly or not ( I dont know what experience u have) but it might be time to call in a member/or a pinball tech who knows the Twilight Zone machine well, and get these annoying problems sorted out. Check every board after u have looked hard at all the wiring harness.

If u were in QLD, it would be a walk in the park, I know of 2 x techs who would help u for no charge, but u are in melbourne.

I reckon check someones wiring harness closely on their TZ and go from there.

C'mon guys, who in Melbourne can help this member out.  

[pinball god]

I think you're right there cavey. I have got everything working except for some opto's. I don't have any switch column errors (I think) and no phantom switches being triggered. I have installed a new opto pcb and it has an led for each opto and all opto's trigger on the LED readout but about 4 won't trigger in the switch test. Some do if I unplug the auto fire cable but don't when its plugged.

I think the cause of my problems may have been the LED clock pcb as it causes a Slam Tilt error if I plug it in. I don't get this with the old clock pcb. But I have been using the new clock pcb for ages.

Now I'm pretty much done trying to fix it. I even replaced the opto's on the auto fire but made no difference

[rads]

There must be a switch somewhere that is playing up.  Have you disconected the slam tilt and checked the cabinet switches?  My cabinet switch connector needs repinning (too lazy) and when it isn't in the right spot, switch 24 goes open and causes others to fail. If you want to bring any components around to test in my TZ or check wiring you are welcome.  I am in East Bentleigh.

[pinball god]

There must be a switch somewhere that is playing up.  Have you disconected the slam tilt and checked the cabinet switches?  My cabinet switch connector needs repinning (too lazy) and when it isn't in the right spot, switch 24 goes open and causes others to fail. If you want to bring any components around to test in my TZ or check wiring you are welcome.  I am in East Bentleigh.

Thank you for the offer, but I think I'll try and arrange a tech and continue to have a look in the meantime. I'll take you up on the offer if I can't get anyone soon.

Any tech's people can suggest for the West suburbs of Melb?

[pinball god]

I have got further today and thought I'd keep posting just in case what I find can help someone else in the future. As previously described all switches worked except for some opto's. The last working opto in the string was the mini playfield TOP opto but I noticed that I had to cover the RECEIVER opto with my finger to activate it. Even covering the tramsitter would not activate it. Also when I did cover it I noticed that the switch test icon for it would kind of flicker like it was being quickly activated/deactivated. Note the mini pf exit, right hand ramp & auto fire opto's are still dead at this stage.

So I got this hair brain idea to activate the mini pf TOP opto and keep it activated and then proceeded to try and activate the auto fire opto. The auto fire finally activated and so did the mini pf exit and ramp opto's (kind of like when I unplugged the auto fire).

I know I had replaced the tarnsmitter on the mini pf TOP opto but not the receiver. So I swapped it with my old auto fire one and they all work now. The ramp opto seems a little dickey so I'll order a few sets and just replace them all.

So that may have solved my switch problem. Now I still have the clock problem where if I plug in the rottendog led clock I get the rocket kicker firing for no reason and the slam tilt occuring. The old clock pcb doesn't do this but I don't have it installed in the clock.

So any thoughts on this would be great ie. do you think I still have a short on the playfield etc? I think I can kind of dismiss the cpu/opto pcb's as having problems (unsure).

I have also found a few bare wires I'll fix in the meantime. I had a game and went well except for I think the r/h ramp opto was playing up a little???

Will keep you posted of any changes/findings

[goodolddays]

Great to hear you've made forward progress 

[pinnies4me]

Slam tilt and rocket are on the same line in the matrix. But nothing from the clock. Very odd - if there was something from the clock on that string then you'd think a flaky switch/diode. 

[rads]

If the old clock PCB doesn't do it I would check continuity on the new one.  Also do the clock test and make sure that all the positions register as they should.

[pinball god]

Slam tilt and rocket are on the same line in the matrix. But nothing from the clock. Very odd - if there was something from the clock on that string then you'd think a flaky switch/diode. 

Hmmm you know you're correct. I can see another head ache coming. Will look a little further before swapping clock boards to see if I can nut it out. Thanks

[pinball god]

If the old clock PCB doesn't do it I would check continuity on the new one.  Also do the clock test and make sure that all the positions register as they should.

will try your first suggestion but can't do the clock test as the slam tilt just kills the game and you can't get into the diagnostics or I can't seemd to. Thanks anyway

[pinball god]

Final update on this problem and sorry for major delays but building a house can take up most of your time. Soon I'll be able to concentrate on things that matter like pinball 

Anyway all things work now on my TZ.
1. Chips mentioned earlier on the cpu board required replacing to solve the fuse error.
2. The slam Tilt error was solved by replacing my aftermarket clock LED pcb. (I think the doide on the fault pcb may be the problem but I bought a rottendog one to prove it was the board)
3. I also had problems with a new 10 opto pcb I bought from mad amusements but thanks to Great Lakes who make it, I found out mine was avery early version and the led lighting was probably stuffing with the opto sensing. That's why some of the game's opto's were registering and sometimes not. The new version he sent me worked first time every time.

The TZ gave my a lot of grief but with a lot of troubleshooting and guessing the machine is 100%

[pinball god]

BTW Strangeways was kinda right about LED's causing opto problems. My problem accepting this was my TZ was working fine with LED's prior and so I foolishly discounted this as a possible problem. Lesson - don't discount anything until fully tested 

[Strangeways]

BTW Strangeways was kinda right about LED's causing opto problems. My problem accepting this was my TZ was working fine with LED's prior and so I foolishly discounted this as a possible problem. Lesson - don't discount anything until fully tested 

LEDs' only "side effect" can be interference with optos. Seen this a few times. Good to hear you are making progress, Rob !