Backglass Paint Delamination

[Steve2010]

I have a Bally Hotdoggin', and have begun to give it a clean/overhaul.  Wouldn't really call it a restoration, but it is getting a good going over.

When I first took delivery of the machine (about 3 months ago) the backglass looked OK, and I did not have a really close look at it at the time.  But now I have noticed the paint beginning to lift (it may have been this way when I received it) - not alot yet, just a little, but it is concerning.

Below is an image of where the lifting has begun - an area about the size of a 5c piece.  You can clearly see the lifting over the "G" in "Game Over".



OK folks - what would be the recommended course of action?  At first I thought of using either some clear tape or mylar to attach over the area.  But having a read of Clay's guides, this really doesn't look like a great option.  As time progresses, there is the chance that the surrounding paintwork may also detach, and the whole taped/mylared area may lift.

The rest of the glass paintwork looks to be quite alright ... I think this is just the beginning.  Is Triple Thick the way to go?    I have read a few what seem to be horror stories with TT, but maybe this is just the way the person applied it?

[pinnies4me]

I've done two Joker Poker backglasses, and the really rare Asteroid Annie glass when it started to de-laminate. These were maybe three years ago, and they remain very much intact.

I wonder if a difference in the inks used between manufacturers might have something to do with the messed up one? What game was it from? I can imagine a Williams one disintegrating, the late 70's glasses seem to really loose their ink easily, could have been that for example.

[48]

Have done all of mine, do it as a matter of course. TT is the way to go for me, as Clays guide says you have to know how to use a spray can, apparently some people don't!!
I don't like the idea of tape or Mylar, I feel it could exacerbate the problem eventually.
If you have a bit of lifting happening don't forget to do a light tack coat first at a distance, as the aerosol spray can blow bits off.
Have a look at your DQ glass mate, I TT'd that with the cling wrap method it was in danger of falling apart completely.
If you want to get the TT cheaper PM or ring me and I'll give you a contact.
Cheers,

[Strangeways]

I've been using triple thick for over 10 years, and I've never had an issue. Follow the instructions on the can.

For small areas, you can simply seal that section only.

[48]

G'day Nino,
I always do the whole backglass for whatever reason, dunno why!
Is there a reason you only touchup a bit?
My thinking is if I do the whole glass it will not deteriorate in the future, from me being careless or from the elements.

[Strangeways]

G'day Nino,
I always do the whole backglass for whatever reason, dunno why!
Is there a reason you only touchup a bit?
My thinking is if I do the whole glass it will not deteriorate in the future, from me being careless or from the elements.

The only time I have done a partial backglass was on a Flash. The backglass was absolutely stunning except a small section along the bottom trim. I could not justify doing the entire backglass as it had no other signs of deterioration. As a general rule of thumb, I seal the entire backglass as typically, there are numerous points of deterioration.

I will be using TT on the Buccaneer backglass tomorrow. It has numerous places where there is lift and paint loss. I will seal the glass, then complete some touch ups.

[Pinfan]

I've been using triple thick for over 10 years, and I've never had an issue. Follow the instructions on the can.

For small areas, you can simply seal that section only.

Nino, i too have been using triple thick for 10 years and only have had a problem on a BK bg.

Doing some reading and research apparently around this era early 80's Williiams was trying to save coin where they could and one place was using inferior inks and thinner glass on their bg's. The dual playfield games pins especially.   

[Strangeways]

I've been using triple thick for over 10 years, and I've never had an issue. Follow the instructions on the can.

For small areas, you can simply seal that section only.

Nino, i too have been using triple thick for 10 years and only have had a problem on a BK bg.

Doing some reading and research apparently around this era early 80's Williiams was trying to save coin where they could and one place was using inferior inks and thinner glass on their bg's. The dual playfield games pins especially.   

The only "problem" I've ever had with TT is availability ! Spotlight stores used to carry them, but not any more. I think there's a new spotlight store near your place, so I'll have a look.

[48]

Nino, Nick and anyone else in Victoria, is this of any use to you guys?

http://www.birchhaby.com.au/ourrange.asp?cat=11&scat=136#expand

Its about the fouth item down. Doesn't say how much but they are at
Heidelberg West.

Someone may want to look at them.

[48]

Or perhaps this mob (online orders only)

http://www.polymerclay.com.au/kscc-krylon-crystal-clear-triplethick-glaze-express-p-11483.html

[Strangeways]

I'll have a look at the Heidelberg store, it is close to my place. Thanks for the links !

[goodolddays]

I've been using this stuff with good results

http://www.pinball.com.au/eshop/?MIval=art_info&artno=MARKSEAL&grp=8

[Steve2010]

OK guys, what's the recommended way to apply TT?  Some of the threads I have read have said to let the coats dry well and truly before the next coat.

Nino - saw this thread (searching on TT) in the forum http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=1256.msg43272#msg43272, and below is an extract of that thread.

"First coat is a light mist
Wait 10 minutes - But not too long or it dries
Second coat is a thick coat, running left to right
Wait 10 minutes
Third coat is a thick coat, running up and down

Leave the glass for at least 24 hours - no more than 48 hours

Third coat is a thin coat - left to right, then immediately up and down

Don't touch for 48 hours - at least !"


From this, it would appear it is not good to let the 1st and 2nd coat of TT dry before applying the subsequent (2nd & 3rd) coat.  Then wait at least 24 hours (but no more than 48), and apply last (thin) coat.

[Strangeways]

Yes - the first and second coats need to be a bit "tacky", but not sopping wet ! In hot or humid conditions, maybe wait 5 minutes instead of 10.

If your backglass is in great condition, you don't need the last coat. The Galaxy needed a final coat. If you have to do touch up work, you can do this after the final coat - whether that is your second or third coat, depending on the condition of the backglass art.

For the Hotdoggin, I would not bother with the third coat if the only damage is in that designated area.

[Steve2010]

Hey Nino, did a bit more reading today after the post above, and checked Clay's guide.http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index1.htm#bg

In the guide, he recommends letting the coat dry a minimum of 30 minutes.  Sorry if I'm a bit of a stickler for detail, but just want to make sure I get this right, as I haven't done it before and would not want to inadvertenly muck up the glass.

Maybe waiting for it to be tacky versus completely dry will make no difference, but I'd rather ask than not ask.  Was it a case where you initially followed Clay's recommendation, and found it not to be suitable (ie. better to wait just for tacky, rather than completely dry)?  Thanks.