Gottlieb King Pin

[massappeal]

I have made a video regarding the problems my King Pin has.

Any comments for help would be great!!

Cheers

[oldpins]

Hi Massappeal.
I took a look at your video, and looks to be a good find there. I don't have schematic for the machine, however I would be 1st looking at the relays which controls the kick out holes. There should be two, labelled left and/or right 'kick out relay'. Here's how it works:
When a ball rests in the kick out hole, the switch under the play field will power a 'kick out hole' relay. This relay will have a number of contacts, one set will power the score motor to make it turn, as the motor turns it will give scoring and will also power the 'kick out hole solenoid' to kick the ball back into play. The contacts on the 'kick out relay' which operated the ' kick out solenoid' may be closed full time (not normal, should be open when relay not powered), which is giving you the continuous operation when the score motor turns whether or not the ball is resting in the hole. As for the left kick out check the switch under the playfield to see if it is making good contact. Operation of both holes will work exactly the same.
The buzzing flippers are not abnormal (AC voltage) for games of that age. Maybe look at cleaning the plungers, replacing the coil sleeves and take up movement on the mechs. See how you go !
Other members will also be able to give their thoughts on the issue.

Greg

[justwedgeheads]

Hello Massappeal,
      Spot on imfo from oldpins.Hole kicker relay(only one) is labelled "I" on the baseboard in the bottom of the cabinet on the far right at the back just near the connector plugs.It has three normally open switches.I have this machine and schematics if you need any more help.
                                                                                                Ian

[massappeal]

Thanks guys.  I will check it out tomorrow evening.  I will also post what I have sorted out today.

Ian, I'd love a copy of the schematic, and a manual if you have one.

please PM me.

Cheers

[massappeal]

Ok.  I have pretty much sorted out the flipper buzz.  Loose coil stops. 

The left kicker works when I switch the machine on.  Both the left and right kickers engage when either one is triggered. But, when I press the credit button and the game is started, the left kicker trigger no longer works.  The right kicker trigger, when engaged, makes both kickers work.  But, when I trigger the left kicker, there is one click, but then nothing.  It will not click again until I have triggered the right kicker.  I hope that all makes sense!!

I reckon it may be something to do with the "C" 5000 points relay, because when the left kicker works with the power on, before I hit a credit, I take it this relay does not do anything.  Man, I'll be happy when I sort this out!!

By the way.  The globe on the left kicker does not light up.  I changed over bulbs with the left kicker but it is still the same.

Any ideas??

I may make another video tomorrow outlining all these issues and post it up.

Cheers

[justwedgeheads]

Hi Massappeal,I have the paper work done and will send Monday.The "C" relay has three normally open switches.On my Kingpin both kickers fire when the ball is in either hole.Check the switch under the left kicker with the ball in the hole.The hole relay"I"has three normally open switches.
                              Ian

[massappeal]

Thanks for that mate.  I appreciate it big time.  I'll check what you have said out in the morning.  I'm really liking this machine.  Considering its my 1st pinball and I have only had it for 5 days, I'm starting to understand it bit by bit.  When I first opened it up, which I did via trial and error, I thought to myself, what the hell have I got myself into??  But, having made some progress already is great, and in a way I reckon I'll be a bit sad when its all done.  I reckon I like the challenge of doing things I never thought I'd be able to do.  Thanks for your advise!!

[oldpins]

Sound like your getting there
Having the schematics given by Ian will be a real advantage. They will give you a real understanding of how it all works. Looking at them for the 1st time will you'll probably be taken back  , however if you read them in a logic manner you'll nut it out slowly. The globe holder on the left kicker may need replacing, best if you use a multimeter if available to test to see whether power is getting to the socket (6 volts).
Remember these machines are AC voltage not DC voltage. If you don't have a meter you can make a small tester which I made cheaply. You can buy the parts from 'Jaycar electronics'. This unit can be used in a number of applications, both AC & DC. Here's the link to the page on my website. Scroll to the bottom of the page to the 'Electrical circuit testing and/or fault finding' section & place your cursor over the picture to enlarge the image.

http://www.oldpinballs.com/restorations.html

Greg

[massappeal]

Thanks Greg.  I'll buy a multimeter.  I need one anyway. 

Ian, the "I" relay switches close, and stay closed when I activate the left kicker when a game is started. 

The thing that really confuses me is both kickers do work when I turn on the machine, before I activate a game.  Then once a game is activated, the right kicker, when triggered activates both kickers (which it should), but the left kicker just closes the "I" bank switches.  I have checked the switches under the left kicker to ensure proper contacts, and all is good. 

Something must not be right once a game is started, coz both kickers work before that.

Strange.

[justwedgeheads]

If the left kicker closes the "I"relay that is good.Clean the switches on the "I"relay with a bit of fine emery or preferably a flexstone file.Could also check solder connections on "I"relay.When you check the switches on the "I"relay make sure they have a bit of overwipe(the small blade on each switch should move slightly when contact is made               
                  Ian

[massappeal]

I have done what you have said but no difference.  I'm lost at the moment.  Its weird that it works fine before I engage the credit button.  I'll make a video this arvo, outlining where its at.

Thanks again.

[massappeal]

[justwedgeheads]

The left/right hole kickers on my machine will kick ball out prior to game being started,so that looks correct.The wires you show at front of game on your last video do look different to my set up.It looks like someone could of been messing around with them

[massappeal]

I'm stumped!

[oldpins]

Looks that the relay is being powered from a voltage supply elswhere after start up. When pushing the left kicker switch and the 'I' relay staying powered, it seems it does not operate the kick out solenoid or the score motor. Is this correct?
There are 3 x normally open contacts on the 'I' relay bank you need to do some testing of these contacts to determine which contacts perform what task. You can do this by carefully placing a small screwdriver blade between the contacts (to be safe : ensure not to touch screwdriver shaft or wrap insulation tap around the shaft prior).
Here's a diagram to record contact voltages and wire colours which you may want to post when completed for Ian to make comparisons with his machine. (I'm thinking that some wires may have been changed over in the past).