Author Topic: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?  (Read 1776 times)

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Offline vinito

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2011, 08:07:51 AM »
Quote
The next depression isn't as far as everyone thinks, be afraid !!!!!!!!!!

I wish I could say something strong enough to make an impression, but of course it's too big an elephant to kill.
BUT...
Being a USA resident and citizen and having seen things progress over the past few decades, I would strongly advise against being afraid. Or maybe to be afraid of being afraid.
Today I know exactly what the FDR quote means - "we have nothing to fear but fear itself".

OK what I mean by this is that our US government has created a systematic campaign of fear to clear a path for pushing several agendas. The nature of the agendas don't seem to matter, but if you can establish a culture of rampant fear in the general population, then apparently the groundwork has been done to push just about anything you want past the sheep.

It came to a head of course when the towers collapsed. There is no denying that this was a tragic event with several thousand lives lost, borders breached, etc. But considering that it was a handful of screwballs taking advantage of the weaknesses of a security system to accomplish it, it always seemed to me that the response was misguided and entirely overboard. Now in retrospect, it is well known that the Iraq debacle was almost totally uncalled for. Sure they guy was a crazy, power-tripping nut, but how does that differ from the other dozen power-tripping nuts in that region? Eventually they finally put effort back into catching the guy likely responsible for the tower attacks - a decade later? Anyways, doesn't it seem that with such a huge US military capability, the group actually responsible could have been pretty much squashed with much less resources, especially in terms of people, being wasted? Take a little time, find them, then snuff them out. I wonder how things would be today if that would have been done rather than pulling the rug out from under ourselves and squander SO MUCH of what we had, including the global empathy we briefly had after the towers fell. The decisions done instead are still inexplicable to me unless you consider that the real goal was to make changes - changes that greatly benefited a specific few at the expense of everyone else, and not only US folks, but folks worldwide. I have little doubt that the wars our government started contributed greatly to the financial collapse that shows no sign of getting better - possibly ever. And yet the few obscenely rich and powerful at the top have doubled or tripled their slice of the pie.

I strongly believe that holding on to this much fear is 95% unnecessary. Sure there are crazy people to be wary of. That has always been true. To let that fear be a manipulation tool is to roll over and just allow a more clever crazy set of people steal away what should be your birthright. Life shouldn't have to consist of so much looking over your shoulder. But it is now, and I feel like I'm having to scrutinize much more the people claiming to run things than I ever would need to watch out for Middle-East crazies. Sure you need to keep an eye open, but in my opinion our own government has done far worse damage than any group of religious fringe nut group could ever hope to do.

Lately we had a government and media circus around an artificial fiscal crisis. What was accomplished? NO change except to establish political groundwork for upcoming elections, and to create yet another commission of twelve political goofballs which are supposed to magically figure out what to do. It didn't change the inevitable credit rating drop - anybody notice that? That is the way of politics, by the way - Need something done? The solution apparently is to set up a commission to "study it" and offer so-called solutions. Don't actually DO anything, just create a subset of politicians to argue about it some more. As a politician, you don't have to actually DO anything, just make it look like you did and give it a snappy name, like "Super-something" so it sounds effective.

Anyway, without the culture of fear, the general public would have been much less apt to sit by and let this just happen.
Fear makes you weak, slow and stupid. Stay vigilant my Aussie friends. DO NOT let this happen to you like it did here if you can possibly avoid it. Do whatever you can to keep your government sane. The rich and powerful are a clever bunch and they'll get together on Sunday morning breakfast to compare notes and figure out how to take more from you. Keep your eye fixed. Don't let them make you look at their left hand magic trick while their right stabs you with their knife. Hopefully it's not already too late. But whether it is or not, being afraid WILL NOT help. Instead, be angry.

Good night, and good luck.
I feel more like I do now than I did when I first got here.

Offline Retropin

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2011, 08:59:54 AM »
Well said Vinito... is nice to see in words pretty much what ive been saying for years.
Here in Australia we have financial fear... each time a politician opens their mouth about "the worst financial crisis we wil face since the 30's".. business grinds to a halt.
Mention a carbon tax... business grinds to a halt.

It is true, that here we are very well placed to ride out the financial crisis without too much damage. Problem is that politicians like to dramatise... it makes them look more decisive they seem to think.... more stupid is the real impression.
Put financial fear into people and they stop spending... stop spendiong and business grinds to a halt.
We DIDNT have the credit collapse that USA did... but for some reason the banks have adjusted their loaning criteria to make it HARDER to access money... result?... cant get loans for houses... cant get invoice credits anymore etc etc etc.
Stop the flow of money and you halt business.
Stop the flow of money and business that relies on a certain amount of credit will take that credit from elsewhere... namely by stringing out suppliers etc.
Result? Money wheel stops turning... small business suffers.. goes broke.

Powewrful speech Vinito... thanks mate  ^^^ ^^^

Offline vinito

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2011, 11:36:10 AM »
.... and another thing !  ^.^

Lately there is the drumbeat of an empty phrase in US politics - "jobs !"
Yea that's a big thing we need. But rather than see what's right in front of their faces if they bothered to take a look or care, i.e. the 20/20 hindsight of history, our politicians refuse to disrupt the current path to ruin and prattle on about government programs, stimulus and business incentives to create jobs. Uh, excuse me, but if you'll look back just 10 or so years any fool will see that there have been so many incentives, and indeed rewards, for taking advantage of third world cheap labor that the mass loss of jobs at home was inevitable.

It's not even funny that our republican party repeats and repeats the theory that:
(sorry-ass theory #1)
If the top wealthy corporations have more money, they will create the jobs we need.
And conversely, if you take money from them in the form of making them pay their fair share of taxes, then that increases unemployment here.

I'm sorry, but isn't it obvious that IF that were true, since there is magnitudes more money at the top today than any time in history, there would be so many jobs that we couldn't possibly fill them???

Don't get me wrong, both parties blow money they don't have like there is no tomorrow (which may be true) and the democratic party is supposed to be a little worse at this than the republicans. So handing out free money to folks that don't deserve it needs to halt in a big way - in fact that would put more money available to folks who actually need it. But they're feeding the mantra that people who have worked their whole lives need to do all the sacrificing, and if there aren't any jobs anymore then who exactly will be those working folks to rob and pillage? I don't think government needs to take more money to spend as they will, indeed they need a big dose of frugality. But they DO need to stop taking it entirely from the sweat and blood of working folk while leaving the manicured hands at the top clean and free to keep every dime they can snatch. I don't know if you guys have heard this, but there are several multi-billion dollar corporations who pay zero taxes, or very little (like less than the average single worker does). They do this by taking advantage (indeed by writing and pushing bills from their own handwriting through the bought off puppets in Congress) of subsidies and tax loopholes.

Anyway, it's just more of the same warning I guess. I am not on either party's side (or the "third" one either if that counts). My feeling about politics today is that I believe them as long as the don't talk. As soon as words start coming out of their mouths, if it isn't an outright lie to help them get elected next time, it's at least a major dose of spin to help get them elected next time. That's it really isn't it? Politicians don't even have a claim of making a career of steering policy. Rather they pretty much can only claim of making a career of getting elected over and over again. No wonder they are so easy for big money to buy off. Make that harder and make it hard for business to ship out labor to the lowest bidder and unemployment will fix itself.

I'm convinced at least.

Details in Oz are likely a bit different, but politics being what it is, I'm sure we are being patterned the world over as a way to become what I call a "monopolocracy" without firing a shot (at least not directly). We are essentially a shadow aristocracy at best. So as before, whatever you have and whatever you are going through, stay vigilant as you can and try your best to keep the short-sighted leaders from ruining it all for everybody else.

OK I think I'm pretty much done ranting. #@#
As you were.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 11:48:01 AM by vinito »
I feel more like I do now than I did when I first got here.

Offline ktm450

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2011, 12:33:19 PM »
Nice work Vince, completely agree with your views.
Australia is no different, they act without thinking, particularly the last government, Howard was Bush's 'mini-me' whatever was good for the US was good for Australia  @.@
This government although different, the left wing, errs too close to the right, and has greenies controlling the puppet.

Carbon tax is not what Australia needs, we definately dont want our kids jobs being done in China, or mine for that argument either  @@^

What we need is better awareness of our environment and governments to be pushing China etc. into better performance and controls on their emmissons.  No good Australia and a handfull of 'environmental friendly' countries, paying for the worlds pollution by making businesses pay more tax to manufacture on our shores. 

It is just a huge vicious cycle, factories will close in Australia, they will then open in China etc. where there is no regard for the environment, pumping more pollution out as they don't have a regulatory body like the EPA to put any controls at all on emmissions.

End of the day, all adds up to higher unemployment in our country.

I am pretty passionate about this as I work in the aluminium industry, to make aluminium takes a huge amount of electricity, more than enough to power the whole of the city I reside in.
If and when a carbon tax is introduced, I dont think our company will be able to continue to be viable, as it is owned by a multi billion dollar US giant, who own many plants worldwide, I don't know all the locations but they definately have plants in Russia and Brazil, now I am positive that, when Aluminium in sold in USD per tonne and with the high AUD in which is has to buy in equipment and pay labour, there is no way our plant will be able to continue to compete, the only reason it is still open at the moment (with the high AUD against the USD) is that it is so old that they have paid the location out completely and only have to pay for its upkeep now.
They have a graph they keep showing us in the doom and gloom sessions showing all the plants worldwide if you are not above the line they are fairly quick to cut their losses and shut it down.  We have been hovering just below for a little while, I think the carbon tax would be the nail in the coffin, they could sut down sell off assets and build a new plant somewhere where it makes better economic sense.

A little off topic but this is the biggest possible decision that could damage the Australian economy in recent years, just like the adhoc decision to halt all beef exports, that was only a blip on the radar in comparison, carbon tax will put our economy into reverse gear.  Lets try to get the rest of the world on board or at least get some parity before another typical decision by our goverment pulled by the puppet master

Offline Homepin

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2011, 12:42:48 PM »
There is one vital point that the entire world seems to have missed about the 9/11 disaster.......

Since then, international flight passengers have been subjected to the most idiotic screening and checking that is over the top and has achieved little in the way of 'additional security' whilst domestic flight screening remains almost unchanged..…..

9/11 was perpetrated "USING DOMESTIC FLIGHTS NOT INTERNATIONAL" - so how come this vital FACT has been overlooked?
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Offline goodolddays

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2011, 11:37:48 AM »
There is one vital point that the entire world seems to have missed about the 9/11 disaster.......

Since then, international flight passengers have been subjected to the most idiotic screening and checking that is over the top and has achieved little in the way of 'additional security' whilst domestic flight screening remains almost unchanged..…..

9/11 was perpetrated "USING DOMESTIC FLIGHTS NOT INTERNATIONAL" - so how come this vital FACT has been overlooked?

Excellent point Mike . I too, have been thinking the same thing
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Offline carnut

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2011, 07:52:04 PM »
great read guys!
would love to discuss this with 6 beers.

Marty Machine

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2011, 08:38:16 PM »
Face it! The governments worldwide will get what they always wanted, finally they can charge for AIR !!!!!! (Air tax).

I'd like to know what they really refer to when they use the term 'carbon'....

In general, carbon pullutants (dioxides, monoxides etc) are denser than oxygen and CANNOT float to the upper atmosphere to damage the ozone layer...
Carbon pollutants remain at low level atmosphere where they're absorbed by trees and oddly enough create oxygen for us....in fact MORE carbon is better for us, tress grow richer and offer more wood, while also creating the biproduct oxygen in the process....

It's hilarious when those carbon TV ads show black baloons full of carbon squeezing out of the powerpoints and air-conditioners then floating UP to the sky......that would have to be the biggest scare tactic of all.
Additionally, when you turn on EVERYTHING in your house, the so-called pollution isn't actually coming from YOUR house (another lie they make us believe), it can only come from the coal-burning at the power-stations.

The biggest joke is Earth hour, in fact an entire state could switch off, but the generators are still burning the same amount of coal and creating the same pollution.
Earth Hour and other pollution saving gimics should focus on turning a few generators off at the main source to have ANY effect.

lies lies lies lies, and WE have to pay for it ?????

time to go and tinker with my atomic bomb kit.....  #@#
MM



 



Offline Retropin

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2011, 08:52:39 PM »
Face it! The governments worldwide will get what they always wanted, finally they can charge for AIR !!!!!! (Air tax).

I'd like to know what they really refer to when they use the term 'carbon'....

In general, carbon pullutants (dioxides, monoxides etc) are denser than oxygen and CANNOT float to the upper atmosphere to damage the ozone layer...
Carbon pollutants remain at low level atmosphere where they're absorbed by trees and oddly enough create oxygen for us....in fact MORE carbon is better for us, tress grow richer and offer more wood, while also creating the biproduct oxygen in the process....

It's hilarious when those carbon TV ads show black baloons full of carbon squeezing out of the powerpoints and air-conditioners then floating UP to the sky......that would have to be the biggest scare tactic of all.
Additionally, when you turn on EVERYTHING in your house, the so-called pollution isn't actually coming from YOUR house (another lie they make us believe), it can only come from the coal-burning at the power-stations.

The biggest joke is Earth hour, in fact an entire state could switch off, but the generators are still burning the same amount of coal and creating the same pollution.
Earth Hour and other pollution saving gimics should focus on turning a few generators off at the main source to have ANY effect.

lies lies lies lies, and WE have to pay for it ?????

time to go and tinker with my atomic bomb kit.....  #@#
MM



 





Thank Christ... thought i was alone in the world with my views.
Been tanting against the bullshit for ages now... the kids are totally brain washed.

Well the truth is seeping slowly.
Did you know that the European Commission just gave NEON a ROHS certification? That means it is within the pullutant and energy saving limits that are applied.
Did you also know that the Chinese refuse to accept European ROHS standards and have their own?

Did you know that for a light source neon is more energy saving than the LED equivalent?
Did you know that LED wont last 100,000 hours?.. even 50,00... even 25,000?

Did you know that neon will last 100,000 hours?

Did you know that those horrible LED illuminated speed signs cost a packet to run and fail constantly?

Did you know that Tesla wanted to make electrical energy free and Edison refused to accept it?..... If i cant put a meter on it.. how do i make money?


And yes.. the bullshit continues..

Offline studley67

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2011, 09:14:06 PM »
we have all identified the problem,but what is the sollution? ^&^
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Marty Machine

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2011, 10:32:12 PM »
we have all identified the problem,but what is the sollution? ^&^
For starters, a decent Gun  #@#

Long live Tesla !!

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2011, 10:51:16 PM »
Its the same rule, and has been for one hundred and fifty years. ITS EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF. LOL

Make as much money as u can as fast as u can (without screwing anyone) and keep money safe for the future. The economy will only get more n more volatile as the years pass and technology removes the need for humans. I learnt 20 yrs ago that unless u run your own business and work for yourself, it will always be difficult to get ahead.

These days money rules unfortunately. The only way to survive the years ahead I reckon will be to have skill sets within fringe industrys that pay heaps. (electronic security/mining/engineering/specialised positions etc). OR find a high paying salary position, but you have to find tax benefits within that field.

At the end of the day, I will always hold my head up high knowing I have worked hard for every cent I have ever got, and have never bludged on government payments like so many do these days (which was the message at the start of the thread). If all else fails, just drink lots of piss, play pinnys and start again fresh tomorrow. lol


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Offline Jango

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2011, 10:04:46 PM »
Has anyone seen the excellent doco's In Plain Sight, Loose Change, Capitalism a Love Story and Inside Job?

Offline Olivia_jason

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2011, 11:20:25 PM »
if you are wondering why we are paying to much tax, ring your state premier and ask them why they didnt abolish their duty taxes that were supposed to be abolished when the gst came in. and then you can ring Rudd up and thank him for being a soft cock and giving into the states demands of giving them a bigger share of gst before they abolish these taxes. most of our tax problems are at state level over federal level. thanks to rudd there is bugger all reason for states to give up those taxes now.
but where the federal side of things has to blame is
previous to the last few years Aussies were happy to pay high taxes but of late our hatred for higher taxes is coming from the way the money is being wasted,
unlike the usa who chucks a spazy when they have to pay higher taxes to have a health care system that the rest of the world has, we are happy to pay more tax when its not being spent on shit like it is of the last few years.

we all know the carbon tax is just Labors attempt to try and tax its way out of debt. where we are all screaming at the tv when the adds come on tv about the carbon tax, "saying just stop wasting money and we dont need this tax"
If we were talking about paying more taxes for better health system and increase to old age pension we might be inclined to want it, but when we see things like us spending $42b on a fancy broad band network and us going and paying a carbon tax to fund us having high speed internet, we think why would would we tolerate it?
that's where the problem lies with this current gov, not to mention this gov believes in tax refunds over tax cuts, you pay more tax now we will give you some back at the end of the year. Id like to say their new increase to the tax free thresh-hold is a good thing, but unfortunately that is only after they introduce a carbon tax. but then we will give you some money back when you do your tax return as compensation, its stupid.

Offline Cow Corner

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Re: SAD BUT TRUE. Where is Australia heading ?
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2011, 09:01:51 AM »
Australa hasn't been Australia for donkeys years. It is now a sad reflection of the great nation it once was.
Political correctness and bowing to pressure from whacky religions is destroying this country and I'm mad as a cut snake about it.
I wonder if our grandparents who fought and died in combat for the ideals of this land would be happy with where our lucky country has gone.
Somehow I doubt it very very much.
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