STERN WARRANTY ISSUES - AC/DC BUYERS

[Retropin]

Not being solder through doesnt mean it isnt quality I am told

Very true.. depends on where the components were sourced of course. What it does mean though is that when these boards need repairing ( and its only a matter of time), it is beyond most people to do this and new boards will have to be sourced.
Now if a diode were to go open, or a transistor short, or a coil lock on and take out associated transistor... then its a new board you are up for when we all know that these are commonly sourced parts that could have been addressed by a trip to your local jaycar... this is no longer the case. To have to buy a new board due to a 0.9c component failing is utter stupidity on the part of Stern.
 It is very very short sighted and completely ignores the existing pinball markets capabilities. Im really scratching my head over this.
Stern just dont seem to understand their own market

[Caveoftreasures]

I will agree here with you Gav because you are the expert when it comes to boards etc.

Three questions.

1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?
2. if the replacement cost is low from Stern/Sterns agents for these computer boards, does that make it OK to go with the design of the boards they have, or is this just a cost cutting exercise.
3. If the current design of a Stern is well made, which looks the case to me, is it fair to say most items in a home market environment will last 10 years. Therefore, is it only the operators who shld have the occassional hassle ?
 

[pinnies4me]

1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?

Probably also some surface mount - not sure how that effects the discussion here though.

2. if the replacement cost is low from Stern/Sterns agents for these computer boards, does that make it OK to go with the design of the boards they have, or is this just a cost cutting exercise.

Massive difference - a 10 cent common component will be available for a long, long time, long after Stern stops making a specific board. Once day a game become an expensive boat anchor for want of a tiny problem that can't be fixed, and any Stern replacement boards costing many time their value due to rarity. No thanks.

3. If the current design of a Stern is well made, which looks the case to me, is it fair to say most items in a home market environment will last 10 years. Therefore, is it only the operators who shld have the occassional hassle ?
 

I have 20, 30 and 40 year old games that are perfect. And can be kept perfect because they are repairable. That's the problem we are discussing. If you are happy to scrap after ten years, that's fine then.

[Retropin]

I will agree here with you Gav because you are the expert when it comes to boards etc.

Three questions.

.
3. If the current design of a Stern is well made, which looks the case to me, is it fair to say most items in a home market environment will last 10 years. Therefore, is it only the operators who shld have the occassional hassle ?
 

Im no expert... but have repaired a few boards over the years..

1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?....  Have no idea

2. if the replacement cost is low from Stern/Sterns agents for these computer boards, does that make it OK to go with the design of the boards they have, or is this just a cost cutting exercise

Its cheaper to have surface mount boards made... wether the replacements are cheap or not we dont know.. none are on the market that i know of. How much is cheap? $100?? $200? $300?
My point is that Joe owner of a new Stern who can fix every other machine in the collection can no longer do this and has to send away for new boards... thats just plain stupid on the part of Stern


If the current design of a Stern is well made, which looks the case to me, is it fair to say most items in a home market environment will last 10 years. Therefore, is it only the operators who shld have the occassional hassle ?

Its not well made... we have machines DOA for chrissakes... the bell seems to be a badly thought out part of the machine that numerous people have had to address.
$9K for 10 years is bullshit Cavey... some of my machines are 70+ years old and still working. SS machines coming on 35 years old still working... yes theyve had repairs and faulty grounding on the manufacturers part has been addressed etc... but the point is they are still working because they are REPAIRABLE. The owners repair them and keep them going for years. This has been taken away from ACDC owners.. Sterns greatest triumph and yet they will not stand the test of time because Stern havent allowed it. It will be like CFTBL hologram except the board are the heart and lungs of the machine, not a nice glowy thing.
No matter how you look at it... Stern have seriously misread the home pinball market.
What happens if JJP really takes off and leaves Stern for dust? Will they still be operating?

The question you should really be asking yourself is HOW LONG the replacement boards will be available for.. and now what do you do?? Buy CPU, Driver etc boards as back up? to have on a shelf " just in case?"

Mate... you shouldnt have to do ANY of these things!

[Caveoftreasures]

I am just asking the questions !  so others can also learn and understand the bigger picture.

What they need is 50 Aussies on the production line.  

I asked the question about WOZ and JJP Nick to see if they will follow suit with the same design boards, making this the norm, or will they go back to the older methods ? 

If i got a solid 10 yrs out of a Stern board, then the replacement was only a few hundred bucks I would be reasonably happy. Not many whitegood/electronic things in any industry last 10 years these days, not even new cars which cost 4 times as much.
Nothing anymore has a 20 or 40 year use by date anymore. They dont build em' like they used to.

[necroscope]

I think in years to come guys like homepin will fill the void for boards if they have a high failure rate,homepin seems very talented at redesigning pcb's,There are plenty of quality SMD products being made and not all of them would have high failure rates, what i would be more interested in is if anyone knows if the new boards have been made with lead/tin solder or that lead free crap.

[pinsanity]

Well it sounds like the honeymoon period is over.   

[Caveoftreasures]

Well it sounds like the honeymoon period is over.   

not for me.lol  my machine is perfect, but hopefully in a short time the others will all be happy as well. 

[pinsanity]

1. what will JJP use with WOZ ?
 

Through hole.
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/We-re-Never--Board--at-Jersey-Jack-Pinball---.html?soid=1104524641178&aid=20z8Wgd2W1c

1 year factory warranty on all boards, with a no questions asked replacement in the event the board fails for any reason.

Know your market.  

what i would be more interested in is if anyone knows if the new boards have been made with lead/tin solder or that lead free crap.

Since the Euro customers also received their machines at about the same time as Aus, I am guessing the Aus units would have been lumped in with the rest of the Euro exports on the production line so due to ROHS compliancy would mean lead free.  

[Caveoftreasures]

Thanks Pinsanity for finding that. It looks like JJP has come out swinging with double the warranty than Stern has. Interesting.

JJP are definately coming out strong. Lets hope it rubs off to the whole industry.

[pinnies4me]

1 year factory warranty on all boards, with a no questions asked replacement in the event the board fails for any reason.

Know your market.  

+1, great to see they understand that through hole for pinball has been proven (15 years ago) the only sensible option.

Maybe Stern will learn from their blunder and reassess their choice, although it would be very costly to change I am guessing.

[Olivia_jason]

hmm lead free boards are the reason the xbox360 and ps3 had mega problems when they changed to lead free, they dont last long, maybe they should take that into account, both these guys admitted the lead free boards were a problem, the connections always failed when they got hot. it was noted to be worst in Australia and hotter climates.
will stern have the same sort of problem using lead free boads?

[Retropin]

The Chinese have their own version of RHOS which is under that of European standards.... Stern wont have any problems

[goodolddays]

Can anyone think of another product that only has a 6 month warranty ? I can't.

[Retropin]

I offer 1 year for parts supplied... 3 years if i make and install.

6 months suggests a lack of confidence in a product to be quite honest