NIB Transformer Pinballs $3000

[Caveoftreasures]

It would only be going backwards IF it was replacing a exsisting model.
If its a new budget model, its exactly that, a new BUDGET model.

But I agree, I wouldnt confuse the market with a lesser product.
Mercedes Benz have done somethin identical. They used to have the C Class, as the base model, Then they bought out a smaller cheaper model, the A class, now they have apx 3 or 4 models UNDER thje C class. They have devalued what was a expensive car, exclusive car brand. Now everyone can get into a Mecedes (albeit a cheap small crappy looking very small car) but the exclusiveness has gone). That also , was a mistake and sends a confusing message.
I agree, you want to be known for quality, upmarket, but affordable, within reach products, not inexpensive, cheaper looking products that resemble toys. I think its a mistake. I think Stern will get alot of unwanted flak/questions/worry from consumers over this direction.

[Olivia_jason]

Ive been bashed around the park with statements about Acdc, every one has stated It was the fact its a game you need to own to enjoy and is designed for the home, and it was built for home use mostly.(fair enough)

Now i actually wonder, if this transformers machine is what stern have clearly called  "the home use machine", then who the hell have they been targeting with the ACDC machine???

Does stern actually know the market they are targeting these days???


this machine would make more sense if they werent already building for the home market only.

are they now trying to give their full sized pinballs more credit as an actual acade machine by coming out with a Toy, are they trying to define the difference here?

a rich kid would enjoy this machine but they are making things very confusing, it might not have been so confusing if the lines between Home use and arcade machines on their  late fullsized models weren't already cloudy.

as for the fender reference, their cheap china made guitars also Hurt the fender brand.

[pinnies4me]

Does stern actually know the market they are targeting these days???

That seems to be the real question.

To be honest, I stopped trying to work out the difference between  Pro, LE, and whatever else Stern makes, just seems to be a shotgun approach, hoping to find the next big thing in pinball by trying to cover all bases and confusing the market.

Credit to them for trying with this abomination, but I do think a stripped down game that still looked like a modern pinball (in particular a decent backbox, even with cheaper displays) would have been a more attractive way to go.

[Olivia_jason]

Does stern actually know the market they are targeting these days???

That seems to be the real question.

To be honest, I stopped trying to work out the difference between  Pro, LE, and whatever else Stern makes, just seems to be a shotgun approach, hoping to find the next big thing in pinball by trying to cover all bases and confusing the market.

Credit to them for trying with this abomination, but I do think a stripped down game that still looked like a modern pinball (in particular a decent backbox, even with cheaper displays) would have been a more attractive way to go.

it is being sold By amazon which might be the smart part, amazon is HUGE, they are the walmart of online shopping, If i was a kid i would want it because its close to a real pinball although I wouldnt have been spoilt enough for my parents to buy it. price could be a concern but who knows a rich kid might see it and want it. and amazon is the place to sell that sort of thing.
All that is fine, and could sell, but when they seem to be making home market pinballs already thats where it is so confusing.

Stern will need to start making a clearer line in the sand on their fullsized models targeted buyers, as to which they are commercial or for home use. maybe they can start with their rule sets on the full size model? if they can define the markets then this can make sense.

I'm going to say i am a fence sitter on this one, the fact Amazon have picked it up gives it a little hope, its like getting a product into Target here, not an easy thing to do and they would only stock it if they thought it could sell. You have to understand how Big Amazon is as far as a online market place, amazon has pretty much killed the Bricks and mortar BOOK Shop here in Australia and is taking over the CD and DVD sales from places like JBHI, its the number one online shopping website and they are very savy on what they stock and dont stock, so getting that product exclusive on amazon is a good start for stern. it might also be the case stern tried to get amazon to stock their regular pins and amazon have told them to come back with a home version??? that sort of shit happens. If i was a Stern supplier id be a little concerned that amazon start to try and get exclusive dealer with full sized pins. amazon now have one step in the door.

EDIT. oh wait Amazon now sell Full sized pinballs. hmm id be very worried if i was a dealer amazon have the power for exculsive sales.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_sporting-goods?_encoding=UTF8&field-brandtextbin=Stern%20Pinball&node=3375251

[Caveoftreasures]

A few questions I had over this product launch and product deskription. Firstly, look at previous Stern model deskriptions.
PRO MODEL -  A Pro (professional model) designed for professional site operators, designed to be sited and is made to have shorter/more random ball times, to accomodate site operators in making them an appropriate income, according to GS.

LE MODEL - designed for the home market, for pinball collectors and enthusiasts who want more toys, more bells n whistles, a signed playfield, a custom backglass, a limited edition certificate, a deluxe lockdown bar, custom body armour and a machine that is a limited addition model that will become a collectors item, according to GS.

PREMIUM MODEL - designed for people who may have missed out on buying a LE model, but for people who still want the same playfield features as the LE, but dont need the extra cosmetic features or limited edition backglass, who can save money compared to the LE but can still get a Premium model for less money than a LE, but slightly more than the Pro model, according to GS.

So, the HOME market is really a Premium or a LE model ?. There is No previous mention to my knowledge on the Pro model at all for the home market.
Nothing on the Stern website clearly says what the various models are for, except the new toy design !

Heres a major confusion point.
Mr and Mrs Newbie want to buy their first new pinball for their home. Prior to the Transformers toy pin release, they would spend a minimum in USA dollars of aprox $4800. Now, according to Stern, they only need to spend $3,000 on a pinball suitable for the home market.
Thats a gross loss of income of $1800 per purchase. Thats the opposite of generating income, its lowering or losing gross income.
Then, say someone already has one pinball, lets say a Pro or a LE at home, and they are new to the pinball market, when they go to buy their next pinball, do they abandon the Pro or LE model, and just buy the new home model. ?

Perhaps the only price point Stern are targeting, is people to buy their brand new home model for $3,000, instead of a older 2nd hand pinball which might be 5 or 20 yrs old. Overall, I see more negatives than positives, but I could be wrong. The loss of gross $$, being the biggest concern if it was my business. Imagine JJP doing a side by side comparison of one of their models compared to the new Stern home model in a colour advert, it would be a massacre.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

PRO, LE or Hasbro
it is still an expensive toy

I am curious as to if this is a Stern idea or is it some partnership with Hasbo?
is it built in the USA or built in China with Stern parts, maybe the play field is built at the Stern Factory and the cabinet is Chinesse built

[Ant68]

Got an email over night from a friend in the US , to the best of his knowledge they are out of China .
If true they are well over priced .

[Retropin]

The Ad on Amazon is interesting..

The " mini Me" Transformers is meant to be $3999.00, but its on offer at $2999.00, so its TRUE price is a whisper under 4 Grand.
Then the PRO model is listed at $ 4999.00 but its meant to be on sale at $5999.00.

$3K for a toy that you KNOW aint gonna last..  just by looking at hopw the legs are attached it looks cheap..

.. Extra $2K you get the real deal.

Absolutely bizarre move by Stern.. reduced playfield.. no DMD.. cheaper cabinet.. smaller head box.. out of China... $3K

Just cant get my head round it   

[Homepin]

It makes sense it is Chinese made. GS has strong connections with several factories in PRC and all Stern PCBs are fully manufactured in China. In fact they have been since the Data East days - not many people know this.

The DE boards have "Made in Hong Kong" printed on them - this was because American laws (at the time) prohibited USA companies from buying anything from PRC. The way around this was simply to have an office - or 'front' - in Hong Kong and because HK was British (at the time) - no problem. The parts were still manufactured in China and sold via a HK office.

Stern has been 60% Made in China since day one (my guess at 60% - it's probably higher)

[pinnies4me]

Is it possible the margins on these are even higher than on the cheap Pro versions they do? Just seems to me like Gav said, bizarre move.

But having said that, it does set Stern in front of a mainstream audience, and could potentially be rewarding, and introduce new people into home ownership, to stumble across forums like this and discover there are real games from the B/W era that can be had for the same or lesser money. So could end up a good thing.

[Freiherr]

Looking at the Amazon link, they have 1 new Dale Jr for sale. That title was made about 6 years ago. Have Stern been cleaning out their basement or something?
You can read this Amazon deal 2 ways. Either 'strike while the iron is hot' or 'we need some cash flow, fast'.

http://www.amazon.com/Stern-Dale-Earnhardt-Jr-Pinball/dp/B001NIZ7BU/ref=sr_1_8?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1349300695&sr=1-8

[Caveoftreasures]

Is it possible the margins on these are even higher than on the cheap Pro versions they do? Just seems to me like Gav said, bizarre move.

But having said that, it does set Stern in front of a mainstream audience, and could potentially be rewarding, and introduce new people into home ownership, to stumble across forums like this and discover there are real games from the B/W era that can be had for the same or lesser money. So could end up a good thing.

Good point, but if u wanted a very wide audience to get to know you, your products and your branding, would you want to be judged with that product as your mascot ? It could backfire big time.
I agree that the Transformers Pro was a basic cost cut pinny when released, but the new offerings when it comes to the PRO model like AC/DC and
X Men certainly arent cheap, not in overall makeup. Cheap in price, but not cheap in quality or design, not to me anyway.
You make a good point about B/W games. In the USA, pro-rata, are there many more households who have a pinny than in Australia ?
That would be a interesting one to know ?

[ktm450]

From Pinball news: The Transformers Pin's price is not cut by the same amount though. Its list price is $3,999.99, although it is available through Amazon (who have the exclusive rights to sell in the US for the remainder of the year) for a $1,000 discount at $2999.99 including shipping.

LIST PRICE $3999.99 

[ktm450]

This is Sterns next release it is still under wraps but I hear it is called the "home version of the home version", a slightly cut down version of the last cut down version, still with that great Stern build quality.  Stern are tight lipped on the retail price, but think they can aim it at the noobs who dont know they can buy a real machine for only a couple of grand more and are going to sneak it into the market for the bargain price of $1999.99 Stay tuned for more...   

[Caveoftreasures]

Heres a good interview with Gary Stern from the Pinball Expo show only this last week.

I have watched the whole movie, but do ya selves a favour and go to the 1 hour and 2 minute mark (1.02), because everything before that is about the 1960s and 70's etc. The 1.02 hr mark is about relevant stuff in todays market etc.
 
Listen to what he says from the 1hr.02mins mark about Wayne in Australia, and everybody laughs. Its not a good thing when worldwide you are just laughed at. From that point forward Gary talks about alot of good stuff, incl licencing titles and why, about a new competitors design (JJP?)not making it in Europe at all, and about the future of pinball and Stern continuing on when Gary is no longer on the planet. Its interesting that he says if a pinball title wont do well in Europe, it wont generally be made or do well at all. He also says that a pin title needs to do well in a bar or place that adults frequent with alcohol, or it wont do well and uses Shrek as an example.

It seems the recent transformers pin is attempt to get the Stern name out there to the mainstream, and perhaps after they look at the cheap product, people will then look at his better, more expensive products.

Heres the interview below for the recent Pinball Expo. I suggest going from the 1 hour mark forward. Worth a watch !

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