Author Topic: CV repro playfields  (Read 209 times)

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Offline pinsanity

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CV repro playfields
« on: November 04, 2012, 12:47:57 AM »
These have now been reproduced in a small batch by IPB and displayed at PinballExpo. Unfortunately the feedback on them is not flattering "dull, blurry artwork edges et al".

One of them has just shown up on ebay so you can judge for yourself:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cirqus-Voltaire-Pinball-Playfield-/130787485910?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e738aa8d6

The reason for some of the flaws can be found in this from Kevin at CPR: (which also gives some great insights into the quality control of some of the bigger players in pinball - read for yourself below.)  #@#

"You guessed correct - they ARE inkjet reproductions.  This has been confirmed by many people who have told me, who asked Gene in person.  This is an entire paradigm shift that caught my attention, considering IPB's stash of playfield film positives (original spot color based artwork).  BUT then again, it seems the whole industry is going digital, according to the feedback I got from our own Mike (who attended Expo weekend this year).

Look at WoZ - a brand new company, brand new machine, and they are digital out of the gates. Full color CMYK inkjet playfields, plastics, etc.  Nobody has ever said a word.  I think because the artwork was designed and prepared for that look.  Thus it translates very well, and according to Mike, the WoZ playfields were very very impressive because of that.  Total flipside in methodology - look at WNBJM - also by Greg Freres.  That was designed as a true spot-color silkscreenable art package, and thus translates very well into that look.

The "mismatch" comes when you take artwork designed for spot color, and produce it with digital.  Thus the results you see with the IPB CV's.  You're changing the native print method the artwork was designed for.  Therefore, misgivings are revealed.  It would be like having WNBJM printed on digital, or WoZ turned into spot-color.  Mis-marrying artwork to methodology would end up compromising both.  It's not that silkscreening is superior.  It's that silkscreening is superior at artwork that was originally silkscreened.  And silkscreened spot color is how all the Bally/Williams/Gottlieb/Classic Stern playfields were done.

Stern is still having their playfields silkscreened (for now). CMYK silkscreened, but not CMYK digital.  So they're currently in the middle ground.  Not spot. Not inkjet. But silkscreened. So their playfields go into a press 4 times to receive all the color dots. Same "photographic" look/goal as WoZ, just not as clean. Digital means only going into the printer ONCE. The buzz around Expo is that Stern will soon likely have to jump up to digital to get their art layouts to look as lush as WoZ.  Woz really is going to set the bar for photographic quality layouts.  It's obvious both companies will not be creating artwork with the "hard spot" look of yesteryear.  So regardless, they don't have a worry of printing a sharp blackline overprint with 8-12 different solid color fills underneath.

If IPB stays on this road trying to make spot artwork come out on CMYK digital, it looks like CPR and Mirco will be the last two playfield makers clinging to spot color silkscreening. People are going to notice differences. There is no way to "fake it" or fool anybody.  I have a feeling the printshop talked IPB into it, because silking is time consuming, messy, and labourious.  They also likely didn't tell Gene they would be losing the ability to be mixing/controlling each individual ink color - when CV needs that, and it's how the CV playfield artwork was designed.

Soon you might have to ask "print methodology" before buying repro playfields.  Assuming spot color silkscreening on reproductions isn't always going to be a guarantee from now on.  Maybe CV was just a one-time experiment.  Who knows."



Also on display at the Expo were a few prototype repro MM playfields made by Mirco in Germany (via Planetary Pinball license). The feedback on these were more positive.


I was wondering why there have suddenly been 3 MM playfields from the IPB run a few years show up on ebay in as many weeks.  #@#

« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 12:59:49 AM by pinsanity »

Offline Retropin

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Re: CV repro playfields
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2012, 02:14:41 AM »
Interesting piece of information..

It brings up a few questions as to WHY they have decided to go digital.. i know its easier and ive always known that you cant recreate an original effect if using the original postives. The 2 main players for playfield restoration used the same silk screen outlet ( so i was told).. whether this "company" is no longer producing or its a move by the end seller to reduce costs is yet to be seen. Possibly this is a trial to see if the end result will be accepted, i certainly hope so.
Those that have access to the original postives are in a very fortunate postion.. its a position that many would love to be in but have no chance of ever getting. To try and cut costs by another method is really a huge piss take.
There are a few other outlets for playfields and backglasses, none of which have access to the original positives... ALL redraw using a sample sought from a source.. a 10/10 backglass can be scanned and then redrawn, reproduced and then sold. Problem is that the redrawing part is pretty much a labour of love.. hours and hours of work which is hard to charge for as it blows the cost of the end product out. For IPB to do this really is a kick in the teeth for pinball restorers, i hope they drop the whole idea..OR.. pay for it to be redrawn so it can be digitally printed and offer a product that is up to scratch... it can be done by either method well so long as the postive or file  is compatible, it cant be done by mix matching as had been said in the original post.
My personal take is that IPB are looking for a short cut.. i hope it bites them in the arse hard. reputations take years to achieve but only a minute to lose. There is no reason to take this path with a non digital backglass other than to cut production costs.. UNLESS it is completely redrawn preferrably by Adobe Illustrator and then reproduced.. this would give perfect results.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 02:18:18 AM by Retropin »

Offline Pop Bumper Pete

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Re: CV repro playfields
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2012, 02:50:20 AM »
It is about a caring about quality

you do not release a reproduction part that is not a perfect reproduction  unless you do not care

Offline Strangeways

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Re: CV repro playfields
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2012, 11:04:45 AM »
It is about a caring about quality

you do not release a reproduction part that is not a perfect reproduction  unless you do not care

I agree. Taking short cuts on playfields is rather amateurish and word will get out pretty quick. I would not buy one of these playfields for my game. The clear on the eBay CV playfield looks dull and milky.
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Offline MartyJ

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Re: CV repro playfields
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2012, 11:12:31 AM »
I believe Mirco was doing CV playfields so I hope these are just IPB's run on their own.
The artwork on CV is great, shame as most CV owners would not hesitate to get one..

Offline pinsanity

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Re: CV repro playfields
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2012, 07:07:39 PM »
I believe Mirco was doing CV playfields so I hope these are just IPB's run on their own.
The artwork on CV is great, shame as most CV owners would not hesitate to get one..

Excellent.  ()

Just spotted this on rgp dated today from Mirco:

Hello everybody!

I just want to confirm that I will be doing Cirqus Voltaire playfields next year. They will be screen printed in good quality.

I will have MM ready to ship in 2 weeks, SS, MB, STTNG, CV, and more coming in the first half of next year.

Please email with any questions.

Best Regards,
Mirco Steffen