Dot Matrix Display, real weird fault, HELP

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

Have a problem with my display on a Rescue 911.

It does not work. Here is what I have done.
1. Removed display and installed in another machine and it works.
2. Removed display controller board which is also the display power supply and installed in another machine and it works.
3. Removed ribbon cable and installed in another machine and it works
4. Tested all supply voltages at Dotmatrix and they are ALL present.

Now this is where it gets really weird.  If I connect the supply from Fish Tales to the display but leave ribbon cable in Rescue 911 it works. Power supply issue right? WRONG.

Cause if I then do opposite and connect the power cable from Rescue 911 and ribbon cable from Fish Tales it works, ie shows Fish Tales graphics.

Just won't work when both the ribbon cable (data) and power from Rescue 911 are used. But either combination of power or data from another machine and it works.

Weird hey!!!!

Any help??? 

[ktm450]

I'm tipping High Voltage needs rebuild, I had a wierd problem with a display that would work on one machine but not another, but if I put a different brand display in the one not working it would work  , I think the Cherry brand board required extra power to display the info.  Rebuilt the HV with Mike (homepins) kit and both worked fine again 

[ktm450]

Oh and before rebuild the voltages tested fine with a DMM, wierd 

[Caveoftreasures]

I agree with KTM.

If u have proven the Rescue 911 ribbon cable and power supply to be "independently" working perfectly, it can only be the DMD itself.
* Prove your 911 ribbon cable and 911 power work correctly by putting the fishtales dmd into your rescue 911 with both of its 911 power n ribbon connected..If the fishtales dmd works perfectly, its your dmd from rescue..

If its not the DMD from rescue, it can only be a faulty 911 ribbon cable or 911 power supply.

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

I agree with KTM.

If u have proven the Rescue 911 ribbon cable and power supply to be "independently" working perfectly, it can only be the DMD itself.
* Prove your 911 ribbon cable and 911 power work correctly by putting the fishtales dmd into your rescue 911 with both of its 911 power n ribbon connected..If the fishtales dmd works perfectly, its your dmd from rescue..

If its not the DMD from rescue, it can only be a faulty 911 ribbon cable or 911 power supply.

Had already tried that Cavey and the fish tales display does not work in Rescue. Ribbon cable is ok cause it works in fish tales.

[Caveoftreasures]

If fishtales display does not work in the 911 machine, I reckon the ribbon cable could still be suspect in 911 and u have a intermittant ribbon cable issue....fishy dmd not working in 911 proves u have a ribbon cable and/or probable power supply problem...

I had a machine which ws doing similar stuff all round....it was the ribbon cable...because the power on one machine to the dmd was SLIGHTLY higher and with the slight voltage increase the suspect ribbon cable would work, but with a slightly less voltage it wouldnt work...it just might be easier to replace both the ribbon cable on 911 and look at the power/voltage supply rebuild as well... sounds like 2 small issuew working together to me with everything u have written...fault finding, fun isnt it....not.lol 

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

Fixed. In the end it was the display (outgassed). Works dependent on HV present. Is working in Gilligans Island, but not Fish Tales? Bally display voltages to these cherry displays are higher than Gottlieb. Therefore partially outgassed displays will work in Bally's but not Gottlieb machines

[beaky]

have you checked what the high voltage outputs are?
check with display connected and disconnected

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

have you checked what the high voltage outputs are?
check with display connected and disconnected

Yes checked them with it connected and they were slit Ty higher then spec. As stated it is fixed as swapped display with Gilligans and both now work.

[beaky]

whoops, missed the last one 

[Retropin]

No such thing as " outgassed".. it doesnt go anywhere unless broken. What does happen though is that depending on how well the impurities were removed on manufacture, the cathode will release electrons.. these should be collected again on the reverse AC cycle. After sometime they collect on the impurities left in the tube and increase the resistance within it. This then causes heat and therefore more resistance. Eventually this self perpetuating cycle brings the displays demise as the resistance is too high for the neon gas to plasma. The cathode in the meantime is breaking down due to the loss of electrons causing sputtering and its decay ( Edison effect).
result is a non working display... the Mbar of neon gas though is still very present as it has been since its manufacture.

Just thought id clear that up... its geek time. 

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

No such thing as " outgassed".. it doesnt go anywhere unless broken. What does happen though is that depending on how well the impurities were removed on manufacture, the cathode will release electrons.. these should be collected again on the reverse AC cycle. After sometime they collect on the impurities left in the tube and increase the resistance within it. This then causes heat and therefore more resistance. Eventually this self perpetuating cycle brings the displays demise as the resistance is too high for the neon gas to plasma. The cathode in the meantime is breaking down due to the loss of electrons causing sputtering and its decay ( Edison effect).
result is a non working display... the Mbar of neon gas though is still very present as it has been since its manufacture.

Just thought id clear that up... its geek time. 

Thanks Gavin or should I call you Sheldon  seriously, good info Thanks.  This display is cracked and maybe has lost some gas 

[Retropin]

No such thing as " outgassed".. it doesnt go anywhere unless broken. What does happen though is that depending on how well the impurities were removed on manufacture, the cathode will release electrons.. these should be collected again on the reverse AC cycle. After sometime they collect on the impurities left in the tube and increase the resistance within it. This then causes heat and therefore more resistance. Eventually this self perpetuating cycle brings the displays demise as the resistance is too high for the neon gas to plasma. The cathode in the meantime is breaking down due to the loss of electrons causing sputtering and its decay ( Edison effect).
result is a non working display... the Mbar of neon gas though is still very present as it has been since its manufacture.

Just thought id clear that up... its geek time. 

Thanks Gavin or should I call you Sheldon  seriously, good info Thanks.  This display is cracked and maybe has lost some gas 

Bit of nerd in all of us.. i tend to hide mine well most times