What did Gary Stern have to say 30 years ago ?

[Strangeways]

but who says Stern will need to copy anything from JJP....???? 

Stern are not going widebody, Gary has made that clear....he is not going 26 inch LCD......his boards are staying in the headbox....and he has his own new computer boards coming and his own new sound system upgrades done as well.....he has his own new modular boards already and has them designed and out onsite with 50 test AC/DC models...that R & D was done ages ago....well before WOZ was ever shown in detail to the public...

what else is left to copy ? nothing really that I can see at all.....

Stern is blazing ahead all by itself with various great titles and variations of its titles with its Pro, Premium and LE models etc......Stern will outsell JJP 6 to 1 in the next 2 years easily.....Stern are doing realy really well. All by themselves. It has absolutely nothing to do with JJP.

Also, what new innovation has JJP really introduced, clear inserts only, Stern were already doing coloured LEDS.....and JJP have a LCD.....Pin2000 had a viewing monitor...nothing new here except technology allows for a 26 inch flat screen instead of a old stle CRT.....so we have a few extra speakers, and clear inserts only....the widebody, the viewing screen,the computer in the base like Pin2000, the various playfields, all been done before 12 or 13 years ago....
This JJP innovation everyone talks about is slightly over rated somewhat dont you think ? Clear inserts and a few extra speakers....but that is it !

This thread is about the stern article. Now it has turned into another Stern VS JJP thread. This thread is a discussion about an article written in 1983. It is not a promo for Stern's current sales and marketing !

[Homepin]

Sterns new boards will mean these current machines will be parted out way faster than any other machines in pinball history.

They are going the 'cheap' route of modern electronics - just like DVD players and TV sets.

I'm not blaming Stern for a minute because that's the way all electronics is these days and they think this is how they should do it to make money.

When your AC/DC needs a driver board in 3 years time it will be so expensive (or parts no longer available) you will part out the machine.

Here is just one example (note the price and the availablility):

 #520-5300-00
CPU/Sound Board for late model Stern pinball machines with White Star system boards - $489.00 - Out Of Stock

Used in:
AUSTIN POWERS
ELVIS
GRAND PRIX
HIGH ROLLER CASINO
LORD OF THE RINGS
MONOPOLY
Stern PLAYBOY
NASCAR
RIPLEY'S BELIEVE IT OR NOT
ROLLER COASTER TYCOON
SIMPSONS PINBALL PARTY
SOPRANOS
TERMINATOR 3  


There are a few companies making aftermarket pinball boards with surface mount technology - in every case I have seen, when these boards give trouble they go in the bin. I do my best to make my boards repairable and I beef up the tracks and pads around transistors, I change components when possible to use something that is easily available, off the shelf. I have the contacts in China (as do Stern) and could very easily have short runs of my boards made there using surface mount. I don't believe it is the way forward for a hobby.
 
Boards from modern Sterns also use proprietry components and so are next to impossible to re-make. Modern pinballs simply will not stand the test of time.

[goodolddays]

Modern pinballs simply will not stand the test of time.

That is just sad 

[Caveoftreasures]

Sterns for home usage get little usage compared to sited machines, but sited Sterns are on 7 days a week, 24 hrs a day, yet u see barely any Stern boards needing repairs in Australia....overseas euro techs might hack everything, but Sterns seem to never need a replacement in Australia at all....I have a whack of the whitestar boards in various segas etc, not one single repair has ever been done to any of those boards before i got them, and since for a 5 year period....

I cant see why these new boards or these current boards wont be trouble free.....the price of the current board is a third of the price quoted above....and AMD doesnt charge anything like that.

To answer someone elses question, any figures I use for JJP, have come directly from JJP....but the thread is about Gary from 30 yrs ago, so we will stay on track with that as requested.

[Greg]

History.[/b]

History
back when Stern changed to the SAM boards they had a shit load of WhiteStar board sets in stock
so no one was worried about getting spares for there home games, Until Stern decided to re run

MONOPOLY & SOPRANOS for the 1st time

followed by-
SIMPSONS PINBALL PARTY
LORD OF THE RINGS

then strangely enough..... WhiteStar..............gone

learn from History...... Buy a spare SAM board set  because when there gone, "there gone"

History does have a habit of repeating repeating repeating itself

[Homepin]

Brett, I don't care how reliable they might (or might not) be - one day they will break down - everything electronic does.

Take heed of what Greg says and please re-read this one line and ponder:


CPU/Sound Board for late model Stern pinball machines with White Star system boards - $489.00 - Out Of Stock

AND - I will wager that they will NEVER be back in stock - EVER!

[Caveoftreasures]

Couldnt Beaky weave his magic with anything I have.....??  I always assumed he could fix anything.

The other thing, is that the 10 or more Sega machines I have that cary the various different models of Whitestar or whatever boards, have never had a repair before, and have never needed a repair since I have owned them for 5 years....Is it possible that they could run problem free for many many years ahead (provided a power spike/fusion) doesnt cause a problem.....

Can pinball machine boards run forever if treated properly, and if its home usage with little time turned on ??

If some of these boards carry both solder thru and surface mount parts, couldnt Beaky(Andy) fix anything ? I always assumed they would run forever without hassle unles someone does a hack or something silly.....

Also, I wonder what Gary would think of this 30 year old article, or what he would think of so many people having so many views about him, his products, his pinball involvement ?? lol

[Marty Machine]

What Gary said in the past is of no use to anyone, it can't be changed....
What he says & does in the future is of greater interest, and can be changed accordingly with feedback and input from enthusiasts that will determine the longevity of the company.

CORRECTLY designed SMD boards don't fail, but pinny-boards make the mistake of always combining high current drivers with low power cpu control i/o on the same board, a big no-no, and the board will inevitably burn out.

I've built many SMD controller boards that drive a remote high-current boards (motor control etc) and these have lasted 20+ years and still going.
I use the same techniques in my own pinny designs with absolutely no failures, so i don't see why Stern can't follo.
A pinny in the future could potentially have 1 board and knock 50% off the price too.
If i can do this at home, then why can't a well established pinny factory do it?

Crybabies fear SMD technology, but SMD is really nothing to be scared about, and only the inexperienced will bag it & fear it, until a day comes when they soon realise how easy SMD is and FAR cheaper too.

.....and following on, no board should ever exceed $100, the whole $400+ pricetag for a board is absolute insanity.

2cents...

[Homepin]

Crybabies fear SMD technology, but SMD is really nothing to be scared about, and only the inexperienced will bag it & fear it, until a day comes when they soon realise how easy SMD is and FAR cheaper too.

.....and following on, no board should ever exceed $100, the whole $400+ pricetag for a board is absolute insanity.

2cents...

I agree with your argument BUT I am refering to boards being repairable by hobbyists - SMT certainly is NOT.

The entire concept of SMT is to make boards fast, easy and CHEAP to manufacture. Selling a board (when it actually was available) for $489 is nothing short of a scam IMO. The idea with SMT is that the board is so cheap - you don't have to fix it!!!

Brett, some parts used on those boards are already well obsolete, that's another reason they can't easily be re-created.

[Caveoftreasures]

OK...thanks Mike.
The price I got quoted for a new board was like $125 only....

I wonder if Gary will retire in the next 5 years or keep going forever....either way, as long as Stern keeps putting out good pinball machines, thats the most important thing....its amazing Swinksy found that old article...good detective skills.

[Marty Machine]

I agree with your argument BUT I am refering to boards being repairable by hobbyists - SMT certainly is NOT.

Any hobbyist with a jaycar soldering iron and SMD tip(s) can service pinny boards.
It's not impossible, sure they next some practice, but it's VERY achievable at home, many electronics hobbyists i know all manage reworking SMD stuff on occasion and they're NOT experts by any means....
Perhaps you're suggesting the pinny community are retards Mike ??   


On the other note, SMD boards should be $20 so you buy a bunch as spares.
Sadly the big guys like Alltek & Rottendog churning out repro boards are still demanding manufacturers prices, not exactly helping the community, but simply helping their wallet.

At the end of the day, a pinny mpu should be nothing more than 1 FPGA chip, controlling a seperate FET/driver board.

25cents...