Author Topic: WH20- good for years - now giving me an issue - help please  (Read 703 times)

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Offline Wotto

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WH20- good for years - now giving me an issue - help please
« on: December 26, 2012, 12:07:37 PM »
Hi all

After years of no hassle play my WH20 began being 'funny' a few weeks ago.
When first turning the game on it would often have a 'blip' at some point throughout the start up procedure and reset itself and start its 'start up' procedure again.
It would then come on like normal and play fine.

Sometimes however - after pressing START - it would make these strange ( and non stop ) whoop whoop noises OR make the wrong games sounds completely  - I would turn it off and on again and all would be fine. A mate with a WH20 said he had the same/ similar issues once and it was the thin flat cable that goes from the top board down to the DMD - in the past I had reseated that and it did actually correct the error for quite a while........however.......

Recently( last week )  it had a couple of 'resets' mid game.

We had Xmas here last night and it played fine .........today I turned it on and got what you see below - no LED's at all and also the DMD display looks a little incorrect  #@# :lol #@#


As usual - any starting pointers would be appreciated guys - thanks in advance.





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Offline Homepin

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re-seat all connectors especially the ones feeding the power supply voltages to the driver board down the RHS
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Offline Wotto

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I had reseated some but not there - and now WALLAH - its that easy?
Thanks HP  ^^^

Now - surely 'something' deeper is causing the issue that needs more 'proper' attention ?
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Offline Retropin

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Aye... connectors are losing their tension or have tarnished etc... will only be rock solid with all replaced... everyones least favourite job!

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Usually when a game just resets after start up or during gameplay once or twice its the silver 5 volt reg.

After u reseat all cables everywhere, and if it still does restarts and weird stuff, email Beaky about replacing the 5 volt reg, get a price to have it replaced, very very easy fix and not that expensive to do at all....one of the first things i do to alot of my machines if they ever do exactly what you have mentioned....
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Offline Homepin

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Usually when a game just resets after start up or during gameplay once or twice its the silver 5 volt reg.

After u reseat all cables everywhere, and if it still does restarts and weird stuff, email Beaky about replacing the 5 volt reg, get a price to have it replaced, very very easy fix and not that expensive to do at all....one of the first things i do to alot of my machines if they ever do exactly what you have mentioned....

Brett, you're as bad as the posters on KLOV - any issue with a monitor and they all scream "fit a cap kit" - hahahah

The power feed connectors are a very common problem on these games - the 5V reg doesn't give any where near as much trouble as it gets blamed for - do the resistor mod as per Clays (ex) site and you will fix most of the 5V reg issues WITHOUT replacing it.

The 5V reg design was VERY poor engineering at the time and it always should have had a pot or at the very least a resistor to adjust the 5V rail.

This procedure is even covered in the datasheet for the LM323K:



Who knows why this was never implemented from the factory - cost? - maybe, to prevent boofheads twiddling the 5V rail, more likely IMO.

For the original designers to think that there would be ZERO resistance in all of the PCB tracks, connectors, crimps and cables between the 5V reg and the micro reset circuit was madness! I'm surprised they don't give a LOT more trouble.

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Offline Caveoftreasures

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I will defer to your expertise Mike cause you have the experience ofcourse. I am good with most basics but no where near as switched on with this stuff like u are.

I thought he had 2 x seperate issues, one being restarts, and one being the DMD....the cable reseating usually fixes the dmd, unless the dmd is on the way out, and the 5 volt reg fixes the restarts, for us laymans who arent as cluey with all this stuff....I am lucky I have Beaky nearby, cause alot of this stuff does your head in its so dam complicated.  I am hoping Wotto has it sorted and its back to normal. Nothing more annoying when a machine plays up, but due to their ages, its expected i guess.
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
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Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline beaky

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i know what the data sheet says but:  &&
The only time i ever need to replace the regs is when they start to drop 1 or 2 volts with just connecting a 555 lamp as a load. or because they are just dead ( reason why i use a 555 lamp is because they are always easy to get a hold of when working on a machine, i haven't tested what current they draw but if the reg should power one of these without any problems at all. I will always replace C4 first and try the test again before replacing the reg)

once you have replaced / fixed the connector issues the next major problem i have is with C4 on the driver board and C31 on the cpu board. WMS used a few different suppliers for these caps but if you have a dark blue coloured capacitor fitted it will be either stuffed or on it's way out. I grabbed 2 random boards out of my repair pile and cut one lead on the cap and hooked them to a capacitance meter (see photos) to prove this.
they should read around 100uf but one is down to 73uf and the other 62uf.
If you have a grey or beige coloured cap they are usually ok and very close to 100 uf

the next problem you may encounter is a faulty cap and or bridge before the regulator

The reason why Brett mentioned the regulator is probably because I borrowed a few off him and the only time he heard of the faults i was repairing was when i asked for a couple of regs so he must have assumed that they were always the culprit.

I always work with the idea is there are so many of them made and neither bally or williams put an adjusting pot in any of there 5 volt regulated circuits from the first solid state machine to the last dmd machine and even after 30 years a large number of them are still running fine without an adjuster. so instead of cutting traces and fitting jumper wires to a pot (which i have seen done on several occasions by one other repairer who leaves the faulty caps in place even after he has done this mod and it just looks like one big hack job) I will replace a few faulty components and get it working like all the other pinball power supplies out there.

i agree with you mike on the "For the original designers to think that there would be ZERO resistance in all of the PCB tracks, connectors, crimps and cables between the 5V reg and the micro reset circuit was madness! I'm surprised they don't give a LOT more trouble."
but there is also circuitry that runs off the 5 volt reg on the power driver board (WPC) and if some one tried to compensate the lack of voltage getting to the cpu board by turning up the voltage then they could damage components on the driver board.

on my getaway which is a wpc machine with good connectors the drop between C4 on the driver board and C31 on the cpu is only 0.1 volts in attract mode , but this has had boards rebuilt by Beaky fitted  &&  
 


« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 02:47:41 PM by beaky »
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Offline studley67

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all good,but,those boards are filthy %.% %.% %.%
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