The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => Technical Matters => Pinball Repairs / Problems & Assistance => Topic started by: lenoz on March 19, 2011, 02:42:55 PM
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Hi all, I replaced the 3 AA backup batteries from my machine & when I turned it back on it always comes on with test mode 4 and cannot get game back to normal - any suggestions please ?
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This is from http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index2.htm#factory (http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index2.htm#factory)
Dead batteries (or worse, dead corroded batteries) will cause problems getting a system4 to system7 game to power-up properly. On these games, if the batteries are dead, the game can still boot, but will come up in "audit" mode (system3 games do not have this boot-up audit mode). To get to attract mode, turn the game off and on again quickly. If done fast enough, the game should come up in attract mode. Note on System6 and System7 games, the coin door *must* be open for this to work (memory protection switch open).
If the game still doesn't come up in attract mode, even with the "turn it off and on quickly" trick, the CMOS 5101 RAM chip at IC19 is probably bad.
Please refer back to the Batteries and Battery Holders section for more information on this subject, including how to test the batteries, blocking diode D17, and the CMOS 5101 RAM at IC19.
Any signs of corrosion around the battery Holder?
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And make sure the batteries are in the right way - as they all face the same way it can be a little counter-intuitive.
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Also the holder loose tension and dont make contact with the batteries
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Thanks all for quick replies, have looked and tried each of these ideas but still no luck, battery holder is after market addition & doesn't look very old - can't believe my luck, thought it would be a pretty simple & innocent thing to do seeing as i recently purchased machine & didn't know how long the 'noname batteries' were in place for.
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Try givving he game a quick turn on then off then back on again real quick
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Did that thx DDSTOYS but no luck still, does anyone know what the default dipswitch settings (behind the backglasss) should be normally set at ? , also if it is any help when game is turned on the display on player 1 is 1497 2
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Have you tried cycling through some audits using the test button inside the coin door?
This usually gets my Time Warp going.
It always happens if I let the batteries get flat.
New batteries and a bit of messing around gets it going.
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1497 2 means game is botting to audits mode .. doesn't really help with telling you why .
I quick turn off/on a few times doesn't work , and batteries are around the right way , and there is continuity from the battery holder to the CPU board .. try changing the batteries again (or check the voltage of the battery pack) .. typically this symptom (only booting to audits mode) means game is detecting backup battery voltage is too low .. especially if the game was botting up properly before you changed the batteries .. unfortunately there could be something else wrong though .. have a read here
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index1.htm#battery
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Damn .. I spelt booting wrong twice @.@
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Thanks goodoldday, my machine has a after market battery holder that sits on the floor of back panel, there is no problem with voltage etc going to cpu board as i tested all this etc, damned if you do damned if you dont decide to change batteries as i thought this would be a good thing to do as I only purchased this a couple of weeks ago, had a play with audit tests also, but no luck.
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Would any of the fuses have anything maybe to do with this ?
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I had a remote battery pack in a machine that had this tiny little on of switch which i knocked when i changed the batteries !@#
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Had a close look at that too, but Iam getting power to the board.
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Probably a silly question but did you have the coin door open when you tried to switch it off/on quickly ?
Are all 3 balls in the ball through?
Rgds
Dave
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Had a close look at that too, but Iam getting power to the board.
Did you check for power at the 5101 RAM Chip (IC19, pin 22).
Should be close to 4 volts with new Batteries.
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Yes to both thanks.
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Hey Stevesee, is that the chip closest to the original battery holder (the one by itself to the left of holder) ?
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Probably a silly question but did you have the coin door open when you tried to switch it off/on quickly ?
Are all 3 balls in the ball through?
Rgds
Dave
Was just about to suggest the coin door.
+1 Dave
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Hey Stevesee, is that the chip closest to the original battery holder (the one by itself to the left of holder) ?
Yes, mounted horizontally to the left of the original battery holder.
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Thanks Stevesee, not too sure on my end on how to check the voltage of this, but will probably get someone to do it for me unless you could give me some pointers - cheers.
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Thanks Stevesee, not too sure on my end on how to check the voltage of this, but will probably get someone to do it for me unless you could give me some pointers - cheers.
It's pretty simple to check.
Do you have a Multimeter?
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Yeah mate, have one of those.
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Ok. With batteries in the replacement holder and main power turned off, set your DMM to Volts DC.
(If it's not auto ranging, then you will also need to select the appropriate range to measure around 5 volts DC).
Put the black lead on pin 8 (Ground) and the red lead on pin 22.
Pin 8 is the eighth one from the left on the bottom row of pins, and pin 22 is top leftmost pin, as the chip sits on the board.
Let us know what reading you get.
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Approx 3.0 volt
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You need at least 3.6 volts at the chip to get out of audit mode.
Maybe test the batteries individually to make sure they are all 1.5v minimum.
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Yes, i have done all of that steve, tried more new batteries still no more than 3 v registering - could the chip be at fault, looks easy enough to change out as it has the plug type holder.
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Yes, i have done all of that steve, tried more new batteries still no more than 3 v registering - could the chip be at fault, looks easy enough to change out as it has the plug type holder.
Are the battery holder terminals clean - ie no green fuzz on them?
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Yes, they are all clean & I have tested the voltage also where the wires from holder are soldered to old battery holder on CPU board and Iam getting 4+ volts there also.
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Yes, i have done all of that steve, tried more new batteries still no more than 3 v registering - could the chip be at fault, looks easy enough to change out as it has the plug type holder.
I probably wouldn't change the chip at this stage.
Try checking the voltages at the battery holder leads where they enter the board, then at the blocking diode (D17) which is directly above the 5101 Ram chip.
See here for location of this diode if you are unsure. http://pinball.flippers.info/system6mpulowres.pdf (http://pinball.flippers.info/system6mpulowres.pdf)
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Put the multimeter on this and nothing (red pin on left side & black on right side)
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Keep the black lead on the battery ground and try the red lead on each side of the diode.
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OK, Ive put a better multimeter on everything & Iam getting 4+ volts on all things now (D17, C5101 & battery pack + connections to CPU board) - now Iam really lost ???
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With the diode I got 4.47v on one side & 4.23v on the other if thats any help ?
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Most likely your 5101 chip has died or has some corrosion under the socket.
Easiest thing to try next is probably to swap out the this chip.
I think Ken (Skybeaux) had some available for sale, if you don't have a spare on hand.
You can PM him here http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?action=profile;u=162 (http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?action=profile;u=162)
Edit. Might be worth trying the On/Off trick again now that you have confirmed all battery voltages are present and correct. Just make sure you have the coin door open when you try it.
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Steevsee, thankyou so much for your time & help and all the others that have tried to help me troubleshoot this problem, when i get the 5101 chip I will update this post as to how i go, thankyou all.
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Hi all, have tried changing out the 5150 chip and still no joy (tried 2 of them) - any other ides would be greatly appreciated, thankyou.
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So with the new 5105 chip, you have cycled power with coin door open? What happens now?
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Nothing Dave, still just comes back on with test mode 4.
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Can you get into the input test mode and confirm you have three balls registered?
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No sure how to do this ?
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Hi all, have tried changing out the 5150 chip and still no joy (tried 2 of them) - any other ides would be greatly appreciated, thankyou.
The socket itself might be bad. You can test it with your DMM on continuity/resistance setting.
Follow the traces from each socket pad to a nearby pad on the baord and see if they have continuity.
Edit - Any chance you could post a picture of the socket with no chip inserted ?
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Glad the chips arrived safely Lenoz.
I tested all of them before i sent them to make sure they were good , so you must have some other problem with the board.
As Steevsee said ,make sure that the 5101's socket is good , if in doubt put in one of the new ones i sent you.
I had a problem with a board once before like this and it was either IC27 (4071) or IC24 (7400) that was the problem...can't remember exactly as it was a while ago , and i wouldn't say for sure that changing them will fix your problem , yours might be something different.
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Thanks Skybeaux, any chance you can sell me these chips as I would rather try changing these out first then trying to find someone here kalgoorlie to change socket out (I presume its soldered)
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Sorry to hear you are still having probs .
My Firepower has recently died with the dreaded audit mode too.
Ken sent me a 5101 not long ago plus a couple of other components .
When I get time I will try sorting mine out and post back here with what fixed it (optimistic aren't I &&) .
Hopefully you will get yours sorted before then . As you have seen, plenty of help on this forum ^^^
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Oh dear, seems like a virus getting around at the moment - lol , would it be just easier to just replace CPU board as a whole (with chips), I have seen them around on net for $150-200 ?
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Thanks Skybeaux, any chance you can sell me these chips as I would rather try changing these out first then trying to find someone here kalgoorlie to change socket out (I presume its soldered)
I don't think IC27 and IC24 are socketed from the factory so you would probably have to desolder/resolder these anyway.
Some of the original Williams factory chip sockets are notorious for failing, particularly the "Scanbe" brand of sockets, so I would still be inclined to check this first.
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Oh dear, seems like a virus getting around at the moment - lol , would it be just easier to just replace CPU board as a whole (with chips), I have seen them around on net for $150-200 ?
Swapping the whole CPU board is always an option but you would also need to swap over the actual firepower game roms from your board.
Jomac http://www.jomac.net.au/ (http://www.jomac.net.au/) in Perth do repairs if you wanted to send your board out or else several members of this forum also offer board repair services.
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Just had C5101 socket replaced also and still no luck.
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As Ken said, there are a couple of other chips which could cause problems in this circuit.
This is from http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index1.htm#battery (http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index1.htm#battery)
....there are two other chips involved in the memory protect circuit on sys6/7. On system6 that's IC27 (4071 CMOS) and IC12 (7808). But frankly it is very rare that either of these chips fail.
If you've got someone to help with solder work, you could try replacing these. It's also a good idea to install a socket if you do decide to change them.
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Thanks Stevesee, have purchased a complete board from Ken & will just get my one refurbished & put in cotton wool for the next 30 years - lol.
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No worries. Sounds like a good plan *%*
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Hey all, just to let you know that all is good in my world of pinball again after replacing the CPU refurbished board from SKYBEAUX (Ken), the world is now a better place again !!!
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Great stuff. Enjoy your FP .. they are very addicitive #@#
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Good to hear it's up and runing again. ^^^