The Aussie Pinball Arcade

Aussie Pinball Forums => Restorations => Topic started by: Slash on May 03, 2015, 02:07:32 PM

Title: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on May 03, 2015, 02:07:32 PM
Finally at the point where I intend to apply the KBS clear to my playfield next weekend (weather permitting).  I have been reading some threads about Darksoul's application of it over at AA, however there was not a lot of detail on the preparation.

I know I need to make sure that the playfield is as clean as possible as any dirt will create spots in the clear etc.  Wipe it numerous times with Shellite etc.  What I am not sure of is whether to sand the playfield lightly first.  I have read suggestions that a light sanding first should occur to help the clear coat adhere?  Is this correct?

If so what type and grade of paper?  I had read a suggestion somewhere of 600 grit.  Would this be right and should it be wet/dry sand paper?

My other question relates to how long to wait between coats.  I've also read that waiting more than 24 hours between coats can be problematic since that can cause problems in getting the second layer of clear to adhere.  Again is it worth sanding between coats?  Im guessing that might only be necessary if there were fish eyes etc after the first coat?  I will be using a foam roller for the application since this stuff apparently self levels well etc, plus I will thin it as recommended too.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: humpalot on May 03, 2015, 07:29:19 PM
Refer to the manufactures web site for details relating to application.

I say this as some iso free 2k clears flare up when re coated after x amount of time.

That's why I don't use them  #@#
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: oldskool1969 on May 03, 2015, 08:11:24 PM
Hey Slash dude, have a look at my Dr Dude thread and you will see the headaches I encountered. Hope this will answer your questions and save some anguish, like I went through. Good luck.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: andtan on May 03, 2015, 08:24:34 PM
I've also had a go with KBS. Have a look at my WH20 thread, around page 4.

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=8685.0

Cheers,

Andy
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on May 03, 2015, 08:41:24 PM
Cheers for the response guys I will have a read of those threads now.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on May 03, 2015, 08:59:06 PM
Just read the threads then.

Did either of you lightly sand the playfield before the first application?
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: andtan on May 03, 2015, 09:41:20 PM
Just read the threads then.

Did either of you lightly sand the playfield before the first application?

I think I did, but it was probably with something like 1200.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: oldskool1969 on May 03, 2015, 10:10:46 PM
Yep 2000 and applied very lightly, gas bubbles form if you load it up.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: big dog on May 09, 2015, 12:03:21 AM
it seems a hard paint to use and risky on spray gear... no problem about its hardness.
gotta say I am happy with good quality 2k .
used 1lt of kbs on the toilet wall to protect from graffiti , it goes off pretty quick .
All ways test on a old playfield first , get a good game plan , then if all good attack the real job knowing its gunna be ok, 99% chance of being good.
best of luck
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: andypinboy on May 09, 2015, 04:18:51 PM
Slash, really interested to hear how this goes - keep us posted!
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: 48 on May 09, 2015, 10:46:28 PM
Just read the threads then.

Did either of you lightly sand the playfield before the first application?
I've done two playfields with KBS now and found it to be a fairly easy way to go.
Sanded first with 1200 WET
My only warning is be careful if you have put any decals on playfield inserts, it gets under them somehow and also dulls the printing on them. However I found that it had no problem with acrylic paint repairs.
Good luck
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: pinoffski on May 09, 2015, 11:09:17 PM
You can also put a Adhesion Promoter/sealer in the first cote of the clear .
that will seal the playfield paint from bleeding through.

 
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Retropin on May 10, 2015, 12:16:04 AM
I use nothing but KBS.. have been for a few years now. I can guarantee  that it doesn't react with acrylic, enamel or acrylic lacquer and this is why I use it every time.
acrylic lacquer is good for spraying.. enamel ( humbrol) is good for fine line hand work for the black lines and acrylic is good for insert black line spraying.. put all 3 on a PF and you have problems sealing with a 2 pac unless you use KBS.. sets like diamond coat and is self levelling.
BUT!!!!! make sure the PF is dead level before you spray, brush etc as it will roll to one side otherwise.
Also - it does take a full 7 days to fully cure.. no polishing for at least a week.. make it 2 and you are home and dry.. then again, in all honesty, a 2 pac or a monokan finish also takes the same amount of time to fully cure.. so nothing lost there.
This stuff is FOOL PROOF unless you are a complete numpty.
It will however react with the glue on decals and so if the first spray is not done very lightly then you will get a ripple on the edges of the decal.
Couple of options here..

Do it properly and not use decals..... best option there is.
Spray light and hope that its not too heavy to react with the glue... minor gamble that could well bite in the arse.
go what the hell and spray.. then sand out the rippled edges.. does work so long as you can go heavy with top coat.
My recommendation is to NOT use any decals ( oh I friggin hate them) and build your skill set up by learning some basic airbrush work.. its is a hell of a lot easier than you can ever imagine!
Too hard baskets will give you decals.... a self belief basket will give you a whole new skill set and better results
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: pinoffski on May 10, 2015, 12:50:49 AM
Great info Retropin...

Is there any one that sells stencils for circles and triangles around inserts as it is impossible to cut a perfect circle by hand

so it can be air brushed instead of using decals

Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Boots on May 10, 2015, 08:20:04 AM
I use nothing but KBS.. have been for a few years now. I can guarantee  that it doesn't react with acrylic, enamel or acrylic lacquer and this is why I use it every time.
acrylic lacquer is good for spraying.. enamel ( humbrol) is good for fine line hand work for the black lines and acrylic is good for insert black line spraying.. put all 3 on a PF and you have problems sealing with a 2 pac unless you use KBS.. sets like diamond coat and is self levelling.
BUT!!!!! make sure the PF is dead level before you spray, brush etc as it will roll to one side otherwise.
Also - it does take a full 7 days to fully cure.. no polishing for at least a week.. make it 2 and you are home and dry.. then again, in all honesty, a 2 pac or a monokan finish also takes the same amount of time to fully cure.. so nothing lost there.
This stuff is FOOL PROOF unless you are a complete numpty.
It will however react with the glue on decals and so if the first spray is not done very lightly then you will get a ripple on the edges of the decal.
Couple of options here..

Do it properly and not use decals..... best option there is.
Spray light and hope that its not too heavy to react with the glue... minor gamble that could well bite in the arse.
go what the hell and spray.. then sand out the rippled edges.. does work so long as you can go heavy with top coat.
My recommendation is to NOT use any decals ( oh I friggin hate them) and build your skill set up by learning some basic airbrush work.. its is a hell of a lot easier than you can ever imagine!
Too hard baskets will give you decals.... a self belief basket will give you a whole new skill set and better results

Waterslide decals are ok??
A member on AA regularly uses waterslide decals and KBS with great results
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Retropin on May 10, 2015, 08:48:08 AM
Ive only ever used them once for this disaster..

(http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr243/retropin/BABcockup.jpg)

I used a 1 pac clear over the top  thinned with All Purpose Thinners and it didn't react so KBS should be the same
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: 48 on May 10, 2015, 09:16:13 AM
Great info Retropin...

Is there any one that sells stencils for circles and triangles around inserts as it is impossible to cut a perfect circle by hand

so it can be air brushed instead of using decals


Thats the things that gave me grief. They lift on the edges ever so slightly and you can actually feel them sticking through the clear.
As Retropin said they can be sanded down and I got away with it but I still feel clearing over a decal is a no-no
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on June 07, 2015, 03:24:52 PM
Been a while since I posted an update so thought I would share how the last 3 odd weeks have gone.

Here is my DIY spray (well roller) booth.  Was $12 from Kmart %.%  Although it actually worked pretty well

(http://i60.tinypic.com/zy66mw.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/309k5r8.jpg)

Obviously after cleaning the surface as well as I could I gave the first light application of the KBS.  I used it with about 30% thinners.  The first coat I did was really light.  I applied it with a small foam roller which appeared to go well.  After it was touch dry the one thing I noticed was it looked heavily dimpled in some areas.  These areas seemed to be ones that were particularly "thirsty".  Most of these thirsty areas were ones that I had sanded back heavily to try and get rid of the ball trail as it goes up the shooter lane and around the top. I have tried to show this below.  There were some other areas like that on the playfield but I wasn't too worried yet as it was only a first coat and I did it very lightly.

(http://i57.tinypic.com/90aag7.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/ojku8w.jpg)

So the following weekend I put a second coat on a bit thicker (again with the roller) this time on the Saturday then another on the Sunday and this seemed to get rid of most of those areas except for a few indentations/dimples that didn't seem to want to fill in.  But over all it was starting to look pretty good.

Fast forward to this weekend and on the Saturday I put another coat on this time using a brush so that I could target a couple of areas that simply didn't seem to want to fill with the foam roller.  This worked really well.  I also used the brush to drop extra bits of clear on any cupped inserts or other oddities I could see when looking at the playfield on an angle.

I just put a light finishing coat on with a brush again this morning (Sunday).  I started with the foam roller but it seemed to leave a funny finish (like the finish you would get on a rollered wall) that wouldn't self level, so I switched to the brush and that seems to allow the liquid to settle better for some reason.  Here's a photo after applying the final coat.  Although it doesn't really show much.  I took some close ups but was basically getting all blue reflection from the "spray booth" and your can see the reflection of my white t-shirt in the shooter lane (I suppose that's a good thing).  So I will get some better ones in due course.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2vuzcw6.jpg)

Next weekend I plan to start cutting and polishing it to see how it finally finishes up.  I will post pics once that's done.

So far I'm very happy with it and the clear really makes the playfield and my touchups looks heaps better!!! It really eliminates any differences in thickness/height between brushstrokes that you could see in some spots where I had touched it up.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: andypinboy on June 07, 2015, 05:44:13 PM
Wow, that looks great Slash  @@*  Thanks for posting - look fwd to some pics of the final after it's cut & polished.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: plong on June 07, 2015, 08:51:40 PM
Looks good ,did you sand between coats.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on June 07, 2015, 08:55:51 PM
I did a v. light sand after the first coat because I wasn't happy with those dimples, but I don't think it was necessary and in hindsight I could have left it and just done the next coat.  I didn't sand between the other coats as I hadn't seen any significant imperfections or fish eyes etc that I thought needed sanding out, so decided it was better to leave it rather than create any more work or chances to screw it up.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: oldskool1969 on June 07, 2015, 09:32:39 PM
Good stuff Dude.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Retropin on June 07, 2015, 10:14:17 PM
Rollers are a really bad idea for a CC... they leave lots of air pockets in the clear and if its not thin enough, then they never come out... never use a roller!

The "thirsty" areas are bare timber soaking up the clear.. this will lead to "grain raise" and will need to be sanded smooth.
Also, make sure the PF is dead level when using KBS.. because it is self levelling ( another phrase for thin and takes a long time to start setting).. it will slide to the lower edge and youll have a thicker coat one end to the other.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: pinball god on June 08, 2015, 12:21:01 PM
Been a while since I posted an update so thought I would share how the last 3 odd weeks have gone.

Here is my DIY spray (well roller) booth.  Was $12 from Kmart %.%  Although it actually worked pretty well

(http://i60.tinypic.com/zy66mw.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/309k5r8.jpg)

Obviously after cleaning the surface as well as I could I gave the first light application of the KBS.  I used it with about 30% thinners.  The first coat I did was really light.  I applied it with a small foam roller which appeared to go well.  After it was touch dry the one thing I noticed was it looked heavily dimpled in some areas.  These areas seemed to be ones that were particularly "thirsty".  Most of these thirsty areas were ones that I had sanded back heavily to try and get rid of the ball trail as it goes up the shooter lane and around the top. I have tried to show this below.  There were some other areas like that on the playfield but I wasn't too worried yet as it was only a first coat and I did it very lightly.

(http://i57.tinypic.com/90aag7.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/ojku8w.jpg)

So the following weekend I put a second coat on a bit thicker (again with the roller) this time on the Saturday then another on the Sunday and this seemed to get rid of most of those areas except for a few indentations/dimples that didn't seem to want to fill in.  But over all it was starting to look pretty good.

Fast forward to this weekend and on the Saturday I put another coat on this time using a brush so that I could target a couple of areas that simply didn't seem to want to fill with the foam roller.  This worked really well.  I also used the brush to drop extra bits of clear on any cupped inserts or other oddities I could see when looking at the playfield on an angle.

I just put a light finishing coat on with a brush again this morning (Sunday).  I started with the foam roller but it seemed to leave a funny finish (like the finish you would get on a rollered wall) that wouldn't self level, so I switched to the brush and that seems to allow the liquid to settle better for some reason.  Here's a photo after applying the final coat.  Although it doesn't really show much.  I took some close ups but was basically getting all blue reflection from the "spray booth" and your can see the reflection of my white t-shirt in the shooter lane (I suppose that's a good thing).  So I will get some better ones in due course.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2vuzcw6.jpg)

Next weekend I plan to start cutting and polishing it to see how it finally finishes up.  I will post pics once that's done.

So far I'm very happy with it and the clear really makes the playfield and my touchups looks heaps better!!! It really eliminates any differences in thickness/height between brushstrokes that you could see in some spots where I had touched it up.

excuse my ignorance but I thought this was a photo from Stern's cc booth. On closer examination I can see I'm mistaken as there are no Stern logos present.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: big dog on June 08, 2015, 07:35:31 PM
great and glad to see it went well , now its locked in you can do any thing to it.
most of all the colours in playfield must look awesome.
 $#$
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on June 27, 2015, 04:06:37 PM
Well after doing a sand with 1,200 wet dry then a cut and polish I wasn't happy with the finish.  It still wasn't smooth enough and it was mainly where I had put some touchups on pretty thick and so when the clear went over it, it was ever so slightly lumpy in that area.  Plus I had only put on pretty lights coats of the clear to date so I didn't want to sand it back too hard and leave it with no clear in some spots or worse take paint off. 

So I went and put 2 more coats of clear on.  Then sanded again with 1,200 and then cut and polished it finally putting some Kanuba wax on too.  Overall I am very happy with the finish.  It's not entirely perfect and maybe if I put one more coat of clear on then sanded back again etc it might get even better but right now I'm happy with how it looks and nothing should effect the ball travel etc.  Here are a couple of pics.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/axd4e0.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/mmxiq.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2uiddkw.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/142eepx.jpg)

As I said it's not perfect but I'm happy with the result for a cheapy pin and particularly compared to what I started with.  I made sure the whites when I repainted them were quite off white/cream so they didn't stand out against the other whites that had yellowed over time too.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2wn1qtv.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/30vylg6.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/dz8f7p.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/6hrker.jpg)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Crashramp on June 27, 2015, 04:15:16 PM
Very nice work. I'd like a Buck Rogers some day.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Retropin on June 27, 2015, 04:45:28 PM
Looks great!

The ball should fly around now... ive got KBS on my Amazing Spiderman and the clear takes the game play up a level or two
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: andypinboy on June 27, 2015, 04:47:09 PM
Nice work slash. That's come up very well indeed! Let us know how she looks when back together & maybe a before & after shot side-by-side would be nice?
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: pinball god on June 27, 2015, 05:20:39 PM
Great first up effort. The next few games will enable you to perfect the technique  ^^^
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on June 27, 2015, 05:51:52 PM
Yeah I am more confident to use it again now, it's actually quite easy to work with. I may bite the bullet and buy a compressor too and have a crack at spraying it if I do another.

I must admit I am reluctant to post some of my work as compared to the standards and quality of workmanship from some of the guys here it's a bit embarassing.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: pinball god on June 27, 2015, 05:54:31 PM
Yeah I am more confident to use it again now, it's actually quite easy to work with. I may bite the bullet and buy a compressor too and have a crack at spraying it if I do another.

I must admit I am reluctant to post some of my work as compared to the standards and quality of workmanship from some of the guys here it's a bit embarassing.
at least you have a go and there's nothing embarrassing about that.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Boots on June 27, 2015, 09:18:40 PM
Yeah I am more confident to use it again now, it's actually quite easy to work with. I may bite the bullet and buy a compressor too and have a crack at spraying it if I do another.

I must admit I am reluctant to post some of my work as compared to the standards and quality of workmanship from some of the guys here it's a bit embarassing.

Be careful with spraying I believe the safety equipment required is the same as 2 pac.
It drys with moisture so it can't be good to breathe in the mist.

Very nice work on Buck
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: oldskool1969 on June 27, 2015, 09:48:09 PM
I must admit I am reluctant to post some of my work as compared to the standards and quality of workmanship from some of the guys here it's a bit embarassing.
Post away Dude, your stuff looks way better than my attempts, who cares any way , it IS a hobby.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on June 27, 2015, 10:23:16 PM
Yeah I am more confident to use it again now, it's actually quite easy to work with. I may bite the bullet and buy a compressor too and have a crack at spraying it if I do another.

I must admit I am reluctant to post some of my work as compared to the standards and quality of workmanship from some of the guys here it's a bit embarassing.

Be careful with spraying I believe the safety equipment required is the same as 2 pac.
It drys with moisture so it can't be good to breathe in the mist.

Very nice work on Buck

Yeah that's what swayed me from spraying this first time. I had read that it was even nastier when atomised so decided to go with the brush/roller.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: andypinboy on June 28, 2015, 01:31:05 PM
Yeah the danger of the 2-pak put me off too - if something needs an air-fed mask & body-suit it's probably best left to pros. I like the fact that kbs diamond clear & other products offer an alternative for those who want to improve their games diy.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Strangeways on June 28, 2015, 11:07:34 PM
Yeah I am more confident to use it again now, it's actually quite easy to work with. I may bite the bullet and buy a compressor too and have a crack at spraying it if I do another.

I must admit I am reluctant to post some of my work as compared to the standards and quality of workmanship from some of the guys here it's a bit embarassing.

We all started somewhere..

Small steps, but keep plugging away as it appears you have progressed VERY well. The idea is that you are learning and enjoying the process. That's the real result  @@*
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Mr Pinbologist on June 28, 2015, 11:18:10 PM
Nice job you've done there.. looks great  ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 17, 2015, 07:28:02 PM
Very interested in this KBS Clear Coat.. Can someone tell me where to get it here in Australia?

Much appreciated: Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 17, 2015, 07:34:52 PM
Ok I found a supplier on the Gold coast..

I have already used a polyurethane to spot seal artwork and also to fill sunken inserts, will this KBS be ok to use over the top of the poly??

Cheers: Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Retropin on July 17, 2015, 07:37:39 PM
Ok I found a supplier on the Gold coast..

I have already used a polyurethane to spot seal artwork and also to fill sunken inserts, will this KBS be ok to use over the top of the poly??

Cheers: Brettski... :)

Yes mate it is... make sure you sand the polyurethane finish though so the KBS grips it
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 17, 2015, 08:01:50 PM
Ok I found a supplier on the Gold coast..

I have already used a polyurethane to spot seal artwork and also to fill sunken inserts, will this KBS be ok to use over the top of the poly??

Cheers: Brettski... :)

Yes mate it is... make sure you sand the polyurethane finish though so the KBS grips it

Thank you!

I will give this a go over the weekend, thanks for the heads up on the KBS..

Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Boots on July 17, 2015, 08:37:43 PM
Ok I found a supplier on the Gold coast..

I have already used a polyurethane to spot seal artwork and also to fill sunken inserts, will this KBS be ok to use over the top of the poly??

Cheers: Brettski... :)

Yes mate it is... make sure you sand the polyurethane finish though so the KBS grips it

Thank you!

I will give this a go over the weekend, thanks for the heads up on the KBS..

Brettski... :)

Just be aware that KBS cures with moisture so if you have damp conditions it will set really fast.
Don't get it on your fingers
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: pinball god on July 17, 2015, 08:51:51 PM
Whats it do to your fingers?
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 17, 2015, 09:12:05 PM
Whats it do to your fingers?

Thanks Chris,

I am in luck, very low humidity at the moment and clear skies. Thanks for the tip about fingers, I will wear gloves.. :)

If there is anything else I should know then now is the time to speak up, I am going to try it out tomorrow. :)

Cheers: Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Boots on July 17, 2015, 09:23:32 PM
Whats it do to your fingers?

The moisture in your skin sets it off quick so you can stick your fingers together.

Obviously getting it in your eyes or mouth/airway would not be good either

I have heard mixed reviews as to which method to apply it, some say foam roller some say brush, maybe foam brush as you have used before may be good?
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 17, 2015, 11:10:31 PM
Whats it do to your fingers?

The moisture in your skin sets it off quick so you can stick your fingers together.

Obviously getting it in your eyes or mouth/airway would not be good either

I have heard mixed reviews as to which method to apply it, some say foam roller some say brush, maybe foam brush as you have used before may be good?

With poly you can't re work it, I mean you can't brush over and over, you basically have to get it in the one stroke. Is this the same with KBS??

Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on July 18, 2015, 12:08:45 AM
I found it was fine to brush over and over with no problems, well up until it was close to setting/going off. I particularly focused on brushing and rebrushing (after re dipping the brush in KBS) areas that had cupped inserts repetitively with no problems.

With the KBS application I tried foam roller first with only avg results and then subsequent coats with a brush which was good.

After reading a couple of your resto threads I said to my wife last night maybe I should have given the foam brush a try too.  There was the odd spot where it was hard to get the clear to take. Maybe it was because the surface wasn't clean or something, but I really had to look hard on a side angle on subsequent coats to see where the clear had missed tiny bits, then focus on it with the brush to cover it. It worked, but maybe a foam brush may have been more encompassing/ less chance for the bristles to skip over??

Either way your resto finishes look like they have been great to date.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 18, 2015, 12:20:34 AM
Thanks slash that is very helpful, much appreciated I now know what I am dealing with..

Yeah so far so good, each one is going to have a different surface now so it will be interesting to see and feel the difference plus the durability and longevity.
First one was Crystal Clear Acrylic in a spray can, second was Polyurethane and third will be KBS so I will be able to compare which was best to work with also..

Once done I will put up a post on what I found with each etc..

As for the areas you came across that it wasn't adhering what did you use for a prep?

I use Repco Wax & Grease Remover (Prepare) and it seems to work really well, I had one spot on the Sinbad that I tested wax polish on then cleaned it with the Repco gear then tried another coat of Poly and it did not adhere on that area, it did what you said happened to you so I sanded the area again then used the prep and all good. So a good even sanding and the repco stuff will give you a great surface to clear coat.

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers: Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 18, 2015, 05:08:07 PM
I have just layed the first coat of KBS using a foam brush and I must say other than the smell this stuff is great to work with compared to Polyurethane.

Very nice gloss to it, I guess it's not going to be true to the original with such a high gloss but looking good.. so far I am impressed.

Thanks again for the heads up.

Cheers: Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 19, 2015, 01:11:15 AM
What are you guy's using as thinners, just terps or an actual thinners?
What do you recommend ?

Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Boots on July 19, 2015, 01:31:05 AM
What are you guy's using as thinners, just terps or an actual thinners?
What do you recommend ?

Brettski... :)

Not turps
I think all purpose thinners but not quite sure, best to ask where you bought it from
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on July 19, 2015, 01:42:36 AM
I actually bought some KBS brand thinners at the same time and used that. I used about 20-30% thinners.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 19, 2015, 01:50:54 AM
I actually bought some KBS brand thinners at the same time and used that. I used about 20-30% thinners.

Thanks slash..

I had to travel an hour away to get the KBS and didn't think of thinners, what can I use from Bunnings, any idea?

Brett
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Retropin on July 19, 2015, 09:42:50 AM
Wont get it at Bunnings... and if you use All Purpose then im not sure it works with KBS and it will eat your polyurethane.
You need KBS thinners only
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 19, 2015, 11:03:08 AM
Wont get it at Bunnings... and if you use All Purpose then im not sure it works with KBS and it will eat your polyurethane.
You need KBS thinners only

Good advice.. I don't think I actually need it now as I have a pretty good finish and ready to lay the last coat..

Cheers: Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on July 19, 2015, 01:18:18 PM
I found these applicators at Bunnings and thought I would give it a try, they work extremely well with the KBS..
They are just a polystyrene thingy with very soft small bristles, you can cut them with a stanley knife if needed but recommend giving it a try..
Test it on a scrap piece of ply first and you will see what I mean.. very cheap and disposable.  Much better than a foam brush which is better than a roller..

KBS will react with the polystyrene but not immediately, meaning it will dissolve the styrene. You can apply your coat then throw it away, use a fresh applicator for each coat..

SHURE-LINE Handi Painter

As Molly Meldrum would say.. "Do yourself a Favour"  ^^^

Cheers: Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: shaneo on August 01, 2015, 12:15:45 AM
Xylene works well as a cost effective alternative to the KBS branded thinners.
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on August 14, 2015, 09:07:59 PM
Xylene works well as a cost effective alternative to the KBS branded thinners.

Thanks for that!

As it turns out I did need thinners and ended up buying the KBS stuff but good to know in the future!
I had some slight channeling and the KBS at full strength didn't level quite enough so I thinned it 30% and the finish is fantastic.
Hard to tell in a photo but really happy with the result.

Cheers: Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: andypinboy on August 15, 2015, 10:01:56 AM
Good work Brettski. I really like this approach because not all of us necessarily want professionally-restored machines &/or have pins we'd like to improve but want to diy. This is a "readily-available" way those at home, without spray gear, can improve their pins/ work on the playfield. We've now seen Slask, Oldskool & you kick some goals with the KBS - top stuff I reckon  ^^^
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: DSB on August 15, 2015, 03:31:40 PM
Nice looking playfield. Great job Brett!
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on August 15, 2015, 04:16:00 PM
Thanks guy's much appreciated..

Something I have learned from this and from using multiple finishes is that the KBS is great to work with and produces an immaculate finish but more suited to modern machines.
I would recommend the KBS way to anyone with a modern pin that comes with a deep gloss finish from the factory.

For older machines such as 70's Solid State and earlier EM's the best finish that is true to the original is the Polyurethane but harder to work with. Cabbots Cabothane is the stuff for this and can be found at Bunnings, use the water based stuff. This gear is superb for a true SS or EM finish and this is what I will use in the future with my vintage machines.

Just love the playfield finish on my Sinbad with this stuff and plays really well. see pic below..

As for the Crystal Clear Acrylic, I used this on Strikes and Spares. Well done right is has a nice finish but once again not real true to the original but I used satin which didn't produce a deep gloss and looks great. I used spray cans and I don't really have a suitable place for this application so I won't be using it again.

As I said I have really learned a lot from each playfield so far and thanks everyone for all the friendly advice.

Cheers: Brettski... :)

 
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Slash on August 15, 2015, 04:26:24 PM
Looks like you got a great finish on it in the end. Nice job!

The stuff is really quite easy to work with isn't it!
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: andtan on August 15, 2015, 06:47:26 PM
Hey Brettski,

That looks great!  ^^^

Can you tell me what time of day you did the coats, and what the temperature/humidity was at the time?

I have previously played with KBS with a roller - ohh the fun that was  @.@ - but the summer temps in the Canberra summer (even in the morning) made it hard to do. The KBS would 'flash' dry on the surface and go off before it had a chance to level. I think I went even as far as 50% thinners at once stage, but then had to double the coats to build it up.

Cheers,

Andy
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Retropin on August 15, 2015, 06:52:32 PM
I mix mine about 50/50 and chuck it through the sprayer. Have used it in pretty high Brisbane humidity and not had any blushing or problems settling.. love the stuff!
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: Brettski on August 15, 2015, 07:05:37 PM
I mix mine about 50/50 and chuck it through the sprayer. Have used it in pretty high Brisbane humidity and not had any blushing or problems settling.. love the stuff!
That's good to know, maybe the fact you sprayed it and it was quite thin gave you a better result over how Andy did it. At least we know it can be done in high humidity.

Great input on this thread..  ^^^

Cheers: Brettski... :)
Title: Re: KBS Diamond Clear Coat Preparation & Application
Post by: nromo on November 06, 2015, 02:02:41 PM
Just install laminated insert decals on top of cleared and cured playfield and then buy a Makrolon (polycarbonate) playfield protector to go over that. Now you can have a perfect ball surface without fuss and concern about inserts popping up. This is my plan for F-14 Tomcat which is notorious for that problem. Playfield will last forever. No need to worry about building up low spots or multiple coats. I figure two coats is plenty. Use a fine bristle paint brush. Way simpler than all this spraying and toxic auto clearing. 

http://playfield-protectors.com/