Is greed going to kill off pinball in the future

[pinwaz]

After hearing today,that JP new Woz le will cost 13,000
And my st le costing me 10,000 is stern,JP going
To make the dream of buying a nib pin le out of reach for
Most of us pinheads in the future with pins costing 15,000
Or more in the future..

[shaneo]

Complex machines which require long dev times, expensive labour and often licencing.  Afraid that's just the way it is.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

No, you do not have to buy NIB to enjoy playing pinball

I believe that a lot of buyers are speculators hoping to resell for a large profit
but their bubble will burst when people realize that "limited' does not really mean rare
I think JJPs new 'Limited' run will be a wake up call for some

[rads]

It is a ridiculous amount to pay for a toy.  The manufacturers will keep bumping up the price whilst people will pay it.  I think they will have a fair bit of room to adjust their prices when demand slows.  One cost cutting measure they have up their sleeve to keep it alive is rather than constantly paying licence fees they may have to come up with an original idea which appeals.

[Freiherr]

When China's standard of living catches up to the west in a few years time, the components price which make up the machine as we know it, will kill pinball.

[Pintoxicated]

Will it kill pinball - no.  Will it hurt NIB pinball sales - absolutely.

Whilst there is demand, it appears the manufacturers and distributors are going to milk it for all it is worth.  It was proven with ACDC that they can make a very good machine at a very good selling price.  Now they are just starting to take the P.

[Strangeways]

The only thing that can kill pinball is not passing on the knowledge and the passion.

Video games in the early 80's almost killed pinball as a pastime
Hand held video games did the same in the 2000's

Pinballs from the 40's and 50's can still be restored and owned. Not even the mob and gangster's in Chicago finished off the silver ball.

The NIB availability for home owners is a relatively new enterprise, one Stern took years to realized and then capitalize on. The prices of NIB machines is appalling, and I would never pay $9,000 for a new pinball machine, especially a low quality game, or a game that takes 6 years to produce. While the demand is high, manufacturers can set the price. But I think the NIB experience will be killed off as manufacturers take short cuts to save on production.

Personally, I've never shown an inclination to buy NIB. Since I was fortunate enough to watch machines being unboxed in pinball's Golden Age, I don't see myself buying a NIB when I can buy 4 decent titles or 10 projects for the same price.

Manufacturers need to understand the market. If Stern and JPP closed their doors tomorrow due to killing the NIB market it would not surprise me at all. But it won't kill off pinball. Not even close.

[Greg]

Second Hand Market  no it won't

[pinsanity]

If you look at the pinball landscape in 2013, it is like 1996 all over again.

The MM remake is a classic example of where pinball is heading - backwards.

Too many short term companies deciding to test the water by trying to compete for a finite amount of disposable income on a luxury item whose main failing is being unable to capture a new generation of customers in sufficient numbers to make it a long term viable prospect.

Give it 3-5 years and all the boutique manufacturers we are seeing pop up will be closed.

JJP will be able to continue through their business model of using other people's money to fund the next title.

Gary Stern will retire and since there is no succession plan in place (his kids have no interest in pinball), the investors he brought in to prop up the company a few years ago will buy him out to get controlling ownership (they might keep the guy on the payroll as a figurehead) and then accelerate their goal to find ways to cut costs and raise prices until the market cannot justify the outlay versus return anymore and inevitably collapses. After all their first interest is investment, not quality of product.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

JJP will be able to continue through their business model of using other people's money to fund the next title.

not really
a lot of buyers are feeling burned by Jacks tactics

I know a few original buyers of WOZ's that will not buy from him again due to bullshit and broken promises, and that was before he announced the Ruby LE

[pinsanity]

JJP will be able to continue through their business model of using other people's money to fund the next title.

not really
a lot of buyers are feeling burned by Jacks tactics

I know a few original buyers of WOZ's that will not buy from him again due to bullshit and broken promises, and that was before he announced the Ruby LE

You might be surprised at the number of people (including ops) who are willing to keep funding JJP for the sole purpose of ensuring Stern doesn't start treading water again in terms of product.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

JJP will be able to continue through their business model of using other people's money to fund the next title.

not really
a lot of buyers are feeling burned by Jacks tactics

I know a few original buyers of WOZ's that will not buy from him again due to bullshit and broken promises, and that was before he announced the Ruby LE

You might be surprised at the number of people (including ops) who are willing to keep funding JJP for the sole purpose of ensuring Stern doesn't start treading water again in terms of product.

I know
the former B/W rights holder must believe he can sell 250 WoZ's that he ordered

[pinsanity]

JJP will be able to continue through their business model of using other people's money to fund the next title.

not really
a lot of buyers are feeling burned by Jacks tactics

I know a few original buyers of WOZ's that will not buy from him again due to bullshit and broken promises, and that was before he announced the Ruby LE

You might be surprised at the number of people (including ops) who are willing to keep funding JJP for the sole purpose of ensuring Stern doesn't start treading water again in terms of product.

I know
the former B/W rights holder must believe he can sell 250 WoZ's that he ordered

I agree with you on one point PBP, it sure as hell dilutes the definition of Limited Edition........

Standard is the new Limited Edition?