Has anyone got a Container of pins on the cards ?

[Caveoftreasures]

Nino is spot on.
My importer friends only ever bought games from Europe and one friend only also got a few containers from Japan which no one else could do.
In the early days Apx five to seven years ago, he could get five Twilight Zones, five Circus Voltaires, five of any A title easily and at great prices. He was paying $1500 to $2000 max landed for A titles in A and B condition but over the years it got less and less attractive.

I am just glad I bought everything when I did cause now it would cost me or anyone for that matter double or triple.
Most of the stuff was snapped up before he (various importers) even opened the containers.

I am glad Nino is still doing it.
I like the fact that games like Starship Troopers are now highly sought after along with many other titles that used to be ignored for cookie cutters at silly prices.

I am just glad I was lucky enough to see so many pinball containers opened up. As Nino knows, it's a very special privelige to see so much pinball treasure coming out of the past and into the present.
Magical is the word I would use to describe and see so many pinball machines being brought back to life.

[Dimsims]

Damn you all, all my lusting dreams have been shot down now

Yes this is becoming reality for me I think, its sounding like I for one have missed the boat  

Suppose there's only so many pins in the world and the more people out there that want them, up goes the price !
I should be happy to have the 3 I own, but that's not the case !
I want a big games room full  

Well if anyone is planning a Joint / share container, id be in on it  

In the mean time ill keep my eye out for the "easy projects" or "AS IS" machines 

[Caveoftreasures]

Go see Nino. Assuming Nino is open for the idea,
Work out a price for good condition machines from overseas with him.
Maybe if u hand over most of the $$ he can add those titles to his next container.
He makes a profit, you save some $$, everyone wins.

Or shop around with every pinball commercial seller there is.
Chase the titles hard, and bargain hard and you will soon have a room full of pinnys if you have the $ available.

[Dimsims]

Go see Nino. Assuming Nino is open for the idea,
Work out a price for good condition machines from overseas with him.
Maybe if u hand over most of the $$ he can add those titles to his next container.
He makes a profit, you save some $$, everyone wins.

Or shop around with every pinball commercial seller there is.
Chase the titles hard, and bargain hard and you will soon have a room full of pinnys if you have the $ available.

Will definitely keep Nino in mind and I've been meaning to go down and see him and introduce myself to him for a while now.

I have also found a someone that with ship as little as 6x Pinball machines for around $1200 AUD (not including cost of the pins lol)
10 Pinballs works out to around $1500 AUD for shipping.

Seems a fair deal to me, but I could be wrong ?
The other thing is, how do I trust these people ? If I send the cash will I get the Pins ? are the condition of the pins what they say ? lol

[Homepin]

I have also found a someone that with ship as little as 6x Pinball machines for around $1200 AUD (not including cost of the pins lol)
10 Pinballs works out to around $1500 AUD for shipping.

Seems a fair deal to me, but I could be wrong ?
The other thing is, how do I trust these people ? If I send the cash will I get the Pins ? are the condition of the pins what they say ? lol

Looks like you are starting to see just a few of the problems involved in an international transaction already. Also add currency exchange fees, "unknown" customs problems at BOTH ends that can add costs.

Dodging import duty/GST is not a smart move long term. There are certainly ways to minimise these costs LEGALLY and I use them for sure but be a bit careful - I have had to explain to Australian Customs & Border protection as well as the ATO what my costing and price structure is and how I determine my invoice price - failure to provide the information that was 'satisfactory" TO THEM would result in them "deeming" what my goods were worth and get this............they use eBay as their main source of price estimation!!!!!! Madness.

When I pointed out the string in my supply chain they were satisfied:

Homepin manufactures product in the Homepin factory Shenzhen
Homepin sells the finished product to my export/import company, Katana Trading
Katana Trading handles the export fron China and the import to Australia
Katana Trading then sells in bulk to wholesalers in Australia
These wholesalers sell to individual retailers
the retailers sell to the public.

The above structure when supplied to the Govt bodies with invoicing along the way then "made sense" to the public servants looking.

Don't think you can bring pinballs in and claim they are worth $500 each (even if that is what you paid for them) as they will simply look on eBay and determine that they are worth $4000 each.

This is just another hurdle to importing.

[Caveoftreasures]

Mike is spot on.

In my personal and business opinion, I wouldn't transfer a dime overseas unless u personally know the person, have seen the goods and know where they live etc etc. If u can't see it, touch and load it yourself, don't risk it.
I have seen half a dozen people buy into containers by "email introduction" only and they lost many many thousands of dollars. There are hundreds of scammers all over ebay and the net in general.

The saving is not worth the risk of all your money. $150 per pin won't include all the various other costs not detailed by the seller. I have imported arcade items from the USA and it was a very long and challenging process. It took months of research, studying import and customs laws, studying Aust Quarrantine Inspection Services and studying sea freight rules and regs and paperwork requirements to name a few. Some Freight Forwarders are like used car salesman, I couldn't trust my money with any of the companies I asked the hard questions of. It was a different price everytime you spoke to them and they asked for something new at each inquiry and forgot to mention many things on every phonecall. I found myself surrounded by people who didn't know half of what I researched.
It was a very very educational experience. Not cheap either even when u did everything perfect.

Buy local. I think u will be safer and u will end up paying the same money if not less than the overseas traps advertised by scammers. Nino has decades of knowledge. He is the man I would be talking to before doing anything.

[Sinbad79]

If the guys already importing are open to the idea, perhaps next time they bring in a shipment, rather than investing time to repair etc, they could offer some machines on an 'as is' basis, potentially saving them money in time, labour and parts, and hopefully pass on some savings to the "DIY"er...

it would also be convenient to know in advance what machines are being brought in.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

If the guys already importing are open to the idea, perhaps next time they bring in a shipment, rather than investing time to repair etc, they could offer some machines on an 'as is' basis, potentially saving them money in time, labour and parts, and hopefully pass on some savings to the "DIY"er...

it would also be convenient to know in advance what machines are being brought in.

People bring in containers are trying to run a business
They will do what is profitable

[Boots]

If the guys already importing are open to the idea, perhaps next time they bring in a shipment, rather than investing time to repair etc, they could offer some machines on an 'as is' basis, potentially saving them money in time, labour and parts, and hopefully pass on some savings to the "DIY"er...

That only works IF they want too.
I guess it depends on how much someone is willing to pay for "as is" ultimately if enough cash is thrown at the importer then they would be a fool not to release machines "as is".

Example:

Machine landed cost = $2000
Restore cost = $2000
Sale price of restored machine = $6000
Profit = $2000

If the importer was offered $4000 for the machine "as is" why would they bother with the restore?
They would still be getting the same profit for a lot less work and effort.

[Dimsims]

The importer should be happy to make less 
as there's no work involved for them, except for actually importing the machines.

[Caveoftreasures]

shopping around and being patient gets you the right machine at the right price.

[pinnies4me]

...
as there's no work involved for them, except for actually importing the machines.

In addition to just importing the machine, they have the knowledge gained through experience, which has substantial value, and which should be rewarded. It also requires taking of risk, funding, and a host of other things that business people need to deal with in order to carry on their business.

I am all for people "doing it themselves", but I think the comments here from the members who have actually done this themselves and really know the issues need to be considered. I am not one of them - the only games I brought in were the two new BBB's, and even that was a challenge and carried risk.

[Cueball]

...
as there's no work involved for them, except for actually importing the machines.

In addition to just importing the machine, they have the knowledge gained through experience, which has substantial value, and which should be rewarded. It also requires taking of risk, funding, and a host of other things that business people need to deal with in order to carry on their business.

I agree 100% but projects are quite often more profitable than other machines these days

[pinnies4me]

I agree 100% but projects are quite often more profitable than other machines these days

You mean for the importer? Perhaps they are, but that is the point, they take the risk and use the knowledge, and make the profit. And every once in a while they will incur costs or losses that need to be covered, and those profits then average out lower.

If you mean for a backyarder (like me) to acquire a project, restore it and sell it - then its not profitable because I only restore for my collection, and sell only when I  want other games or have had enough of the game etc.

Even with some projects, while some have returned more than cost, many times I have only got back what I have spent, and sometimes a little less if selling to a forum member.

For a new collector to acquire a few titles it probably is a good thing to acquire projects - not just for the cost, but for the experience they provide during the process. But getting them from overseas is the issue here, and those risks are too high for many.

[Brunswick Brawler]

Supply and Demand...

The more the end buyer is prepared to pay, the more the importer makes, the more the exporter makes, the more the original seller makes.  Our willingness to pay more is what drives the importing business.  A capping price for 'most' games is where the cost of used is approaching cost of new.

Our wiliness to pay more is based on lack of supply (and our current economic situation compared to the rest of the world).

How to drop the used machine price:
Play more pinball on location. Operators will buy more new pins.  As the machines become aged, unreliable and get less play, operators will on sell them.  With more supply in the local market, the cost of a container pin will be slightly more than the price of a local pin (truth is the prices of local and import will alway be almost same - one drives the other).

That is what the situation was like up until the about year 2000, where local operators were dumping pins and no longer buying replacements.  So pins are only expensive here because we are paying for the lack of new purchases over the last 10+ years.