EM scoring intermittant problem.

[Strangeways]

That's the unit that was giving me hassles "J"

I don't have the schematics, but I'd like to try something. With the machine off, remove the clip from the "J" relay and let it "hang" - but be careful that it is not touching anything as it "hangs". Switch the machine on and start a game. Use the same method you used before - thump your fist on the playfield to cause the phantom scoring.

Still happening ?

Try cleaning and reseating the connectors below the relays.

Still happening ?

Can you tell me (from the schematics) - What the three relays are called ?

[chris288]

That relay marked J is actually a Gottlieb AS Stepper unit. I have 2 of them on my Card Whiz and if their not working right then yes you can have all sorts of problems.

It is explained in the Marvin guide how to service this unit, but here is a quick rundown on how to test/ service it.

1. Unplug unit and use a 9Volt battery and croc lip leads onto the coil terminals and pulse it just by touching the croc clip onto  coil lug and see if it steps around all the way and doesn't get stuck.
2. Clean both sides of the little circuit board ( that has the copper tracks on it ) using very fine wet N dry paper or scotchbrite and then use isopropyl alcohol to clean off any gunk. Do only one side at a time.
3. Take off the little stepper contact and gently clean the contacts on that. When you reassemble make sure that the stepper contact is making good contact with the tracks on the circuit board. You can adjust tension on it so that it does make good contact.
4. While the unit is apart, clean the nylon ratchett/ cog assembly too using metho or iso . If its like mine then there will be dust and grease on it which causes the ratchett to stick and not move freely. These are nylon and dont usually need any other lube.
5. Remove the armature plate ( the bit that gets pulled in by the coil) and clean that too including the little nylon bit at the end. If that has gunk in it then it wont advance the ratchett properley.
6. Finally reassemble and test it again to see if it steps all the way around and if not then the spring may be cactus, so just shorten it by one or two loops so as to give the spring more tension. Do replace the spring sometime soon though.
7. While the unit is apart its a good idea to clean those switchblade contacts too using business card or wet"n"dry.
8. It should now work properley. If not then at least you have now given it a service for the first time in its life and it is one less thing that needs attention.

You can probably borrow one of these AS steppers from another EM but just be aware that there are at least 2 types, so visually inspect it to see if the one you're swapping is exactly the same.

[Extra Ball]

Nino with the J unit (spot control relay) hanging it behaves much better, can drop a lot of targets and only get the odd over-scoring. The other relays P is Right and Left Pop Bumper Relay, and Q Alternating Relay.

I cleaned-up those contacts/reseated, didnt seem to make a difference.

[Extra Ball]

That relay marked J is actually a Gottlieb AS Stepper unit. I have 2 of them on my Card Whiz and if their not working right then yes you can have all sorts of problems.

It is explained in the Marvin guide how to service this unit, but here is a quick rundown on how to test/ service it.

1. Unplug unit and use a 9Volt battery and croc lip leads onto the coil terminals and pulse it just by touching the croc clip onto  coil lug and see if it steps around all the way and doesn't get stuck.
2. Clean both sides of the little circuit board ( that has the copper tracks on it ) using very fine wet N dry paper or scotchbrite and then use isopropyl alcohol to clean off any gunk. Do only one side at a time.
3. Take off the little stepper contact and gently clean the contacts on that. When you reassemble make sure that the stepper contact is making good contact with the tracks on the circuit board. You can adjust tension on it so that it does make good contact.
4. While the unit is apart, clean the nylon ratchett/ cog assembly too using metho or iso . If its like mine then there will be dust and grease on it which causes the ratchett to stick and not move freely. These are nylon and dont usually need any other lube.
5. Remove the armature plate ( the bit that gets pulled in by the coil) and clean that too including the little nylon bit at the end. If that has gunk in it then it wont advance the ratchett properley.
6. Finally reassemble and test it again to see if it steps all the way around and if not then the spring may be cactus, so just shorten it by one or two loops so as to give the spring more tension. Do replace the spring sometime soon though.
7. While the unit is apart its a good idea to clean those switchblade contacts too using business card or wet"n"dry.
8. It should now work properley. If not then at least you have now given it a service for the first time in its life and it is one less thing that needs attention.

You can probably borrow one of these AS steppers from another EM but just be aware that there are at least 2 types, so visually inspect it to see if the one you're swapping is exactly the same.

I can certainly try all that as well thanks.

[Extra Ball]

Ok cleaned-up that stepper unit, didnt make a difference. Moved on to the Q relay, and noticed one contact not closing to well. Adjusting this one contact set will make the problem better or worse, but finding the right adjustment seems difficult. Half an hour ago I had it perfect, machine behaved 100% for 2 of 5 ball games that I played. Then I left it for a few mins, played it again and the problem is back. Interesting that adjusting the Q relay also makes a relay in the bottom of the cabinet buzz more or less. When it is buzzing less the scoring problem is better. Definate link between these 2 relays. 

[Strangeways]

Sounds to me like you are on the right track - The "Q" relay sounds like the culprit, and the "downstream" relay is a symptom of a problem with the "Q" Relay".

Important to note that from your description above - you adjusted the points - but did you clean them with an old business card ?

[Extra Ball]

Sounds to me like you are on the right track - The "Q" relay sounds like the culprit, and the "downstream" relay is a symptom of a problem with the "Q" Relay".

Important to note that from your description above - you adjusted the points - but did you clean them with an old business card ?

Nino I did slid a credit in between the 2 contacts that i think are the problem. To do a better job would mean I would have to remove the screws that hold all the contacts on that relay.....if I do that will they all come apart?

[Strangeways]

Sounds to me like you are on the right track - The "Q" relay sounds like the culprit, and the "downstream" relay is a symptom of a problem with the "Q" Relay".

Important to note that from your description above - you adjusted the points - but did you clean them with an old business card ?

Nino I did slid a credit in between the 2 contacts that i think are the problem. To do a better job would mean I would have to remove the screws that hold all the contacts on that relay.....if I do that will they all come apart?

Don't remove the screws - no need. Just slip a piece of card in between the contacts, one by one. The dirt will deposit on the card. One thing I thought of was to tighten the screws on that relay and then clean and adjust if necessary.

[Extra Ball]

ty will do that tommorrow
:)

[Extra Ball]

Cleaned the contacts, adjusted again, got it working fine! Then..........discovered pop bumpers not working, and an aweful buzzing coming from the score reel relays. The 100 point score reel relay is buzzing after a pop bumper is hit, you get no points, and the bumper doesnt activate. I think there is a short somewhere, hit me for six to have it fixed then this happen........it tripped the safety switch in the meter box as well. Interesting that the score reels function fine, all of them do, but activating either pop-bumper stuffs things up. Time for an expert tech to visit. I have spent 2 days, and with even with good advice have managed to make a new problem lol 

Later the wife called me in to say the washing machine wont spin............ grabbed it by front and shook the crap out of it (maybe I was venting over King Pin lol)........Instant fix! At least I get points for that achievement. 

[Strangeways]

Cleaned the contacts, adjusted again, got it working fine! Then..........discovered pop bumpers not working, and an aweful buzzing coming from the score reel relays. The 100 point score reel relay is buzzing after a pop bumper is hit, you get no points, and the bumper doesnt activate. I think there is a short somewhere, hit me for six to have it fixed then this happen........it tripped the safety switch in the meter box as well. Interesting that the score reels function fine, all of them do, but activating either pop-bumper stuffs things up. Time for an expert tech to visit. I have spent 2 days, and with even with good advice have managed to make a new problem lol 

Later the wife called me in to say the washing machine wont spin............ grabbed it by front and shook the crap out of it (maybe I was venting over King Pin lol)........Instant fix! At least I get points for that achievement. 

Seems to me that the issue is still with the "Q" relay - Every time you clean / Adjust - the machine initially works - then fails - HAS to be an adjustment.

Your idea of having someone have a quick look over it is a good idea - do you have schematics ?

[Extra Ball]

Yep I have schematics, wouldave loved to fix it myself but hate to make things worse.