Indy - Idol ball drop door problem

[MrMaloo]

Hi guys . Just got myself an Indy today and after a few games am having an issue with the yellow drop down door at the exit of the idol not dropping down when it should .

Have had a quick look at the coil under the PF and all looks OK . Just wondering if it would be a problem with the coil itself or is there an opto in the idol head that could be causing it . Don't have a manual (yet) and have no experience working on pins with optos so any help would be appreciated .

[MartyJ]

If you go into test mode and select switch edge test put your finger in between the opto and see if it registers.  Sometimes they need cleaning with a cotton tip

[AskJacob]

Could be a lot of things at this stage:

What is it actually doing? Rotating around, making the "elephant" sound and then no ball coming out? not rotating at all? ignoring the idol and serving the ball from the plunger instead?

1 - does the door slide down easily by hand and not bind?
2 - does the door activate properly in the solenoid test?
3 - is the idol tightened onto the shaft properly, with the set screw lined up on the flat of the shaft (you will need a long allen key to reach that bugger, and via the drop down door!)
4 - does the test menu "idol test" work OK (the machine needs to know where the idol is to open the door at the right time)



Cheers
Jacob

[Extra Ball]

Could be a lot of things at this stage:

What is it actually doing? Rotating around, making the "elephant" sound and then no ball coming out? not rotating at all? ignoring the idol and serving the ball from the plunger instead?

1 - does the door slide down easily by hand and not bind?
2 - does the door activate properly in the solenoid test?
3 - is the idol tightened onto the shaft properly, with the set screw lined up on the flat of the shaft (you will need a long allen key to reach that bugger, and via the drop down door!)
4 - does the test menu "idol test" work OK (the machine needs to know where the idol is to open the door at the right time)



Cheers
Jacob

Jacob another quality reply to help someone. Welldone mate 

Scott we want pics of your new machine 

Manual here: http://files.flipperspill.no/Support/Pinball/Manuals/Indiana-Jones_Manual.pdf

[MrMaloo]

Could be a lot of things at this stage:

What is it actually doing? Rotating around, making the "elephant" sound and then no ball coming out? not rotating at all? ignoring the idol and serving the ball from the plunger instead?

1 - does the door slide down easily by hand and not bind?
2 - does the door activate properly in the solenoid test?
3 - is the idol tightened onto the shaft properly, with the set screw lined up on the flat of the shaft (you will need a long allen key to reach that bugger, and via the drop down door!)
4 - does the test menu "idol test" work OK (the machine needs to know where the idol is to open the door at the right time)


Cheers
Jacob

The idol spins like it should Jacob.It makes the elephant noise but the door doesn't drop. It seems to be an intermittent problem too . Sometimes works . Sometimes doesn't .Just went and had a few games and got the 3 balls locked . Multi-ball started and the first ball came out like it should but the 2nd and 3rd ones wouldn't .
The door slides down easily by hand ( that's how I've been getting the balls out) . Haven't had a chance to check out the test menu but will try that .
Was thinking it may be a problem with the main trough optos ( ie. it loses track of how many balls are on the PF ) . Could this be the case too .
I'm sure I'll get it sorted easily but just not familiar with the inner workings of this pin yet.


OK OK Greg . I'm working on it . I'll upload them now.

[MrMaloo]

Just an update . Game seemed to be working fine when I first set it up .Thought it may have been a connector or something came loose during transport . Took the translite out to have a check around and noticed the little red LED's on the main CPU board - when you turn the game on the bottom one comes on and the top one comes on for about 3 seconds or so ( middle one is unlit) . After about 3 seconds the top one goes off and the middle one blinks constantly with the bottom one remaining on the whole time . Can't think from memory but the blinking means there is a problem somewhere correct ??? ( Been a while since I've owned a Williams).

Haven't really had much time to check it out but will have to download a manual and see what I can find .

[Skybeaux]

The middle LED blinking is normal Scott ,sounds like the cpu is booting up properly.

[MrMaloo]

Thanks Ken . Been a while since I've been in a Williams pin . Hopefully going to get a chance to look at it today .What an awesome weekend this has been - new pin delivered Friday , Rollerball meet Saturday .

[AskJacob]

The idol spins like it should Jacob.It makes the elephant noise but the door doesn't drop. It seems to be an intermittent problem too . Sometimes works . Sometimes doesn't .Just went and had a few games and got the 3 balls locked . Multi-ball started and the first ball came out like it should but the 2nd and 3rd ones wouldn't .
The door slides down easily by hand ( that's how I've been getting the balls out) . Haven't had a chance to check out the test menu but will try that .
Was thinking it may be a problem with the main trough optos ( ie. it loses track of how many balls are on the PF ) . Could this be the case too .
I'm sure I'll get it sorted easily but just not familiar with the inner workings of this pin yet.


OK OK Greg . I'm working on it . I'll upload them now.

Ok so it does not seem like an opto problem - the elephant sound is made after the idol has rotated into the correct position and the door is about to drop. That means the Idol optos are working!

I reckon there is something mechanically screwy at this stage. Keep in mind when you hand activate the door from "above" you are testing it by pushing it. The solenoid actually works by pulling it, so it may pay to lift the playfield and try to pull it from the solenoid side - you may find it binds when testing it this way. This will also let you check for any discoloration of the paper on the solenoid (signs of overheating) too. If the coil has overheated, then it will also have distorted the coil sleeve and will never work properly...

Oh yeah, check the door solenoid plunger to see if it is black, oily or greasy - you never know if some clown has tried oiling the damn thing too!

I reckon it may be as simple as a coil sleeve worn out, or even the wrong spring installed. Also check and make sure on foreign crap has ended up in the area, including any wires from the playfield.

Cheers
Jacob

[MrMaloo]

Thanks for your help on this Jacob but I'm 99.9 % sure I found the exact problem tonight. I actually started at the wrong end of the circuit .. 

Turned it on and noticed the translite looked a little dark . On closer inspection the bottom half of the GI lights behind the translite were out . Thought it had blown a fuse so went checking . Pulled some wires out the way a bit and noticed that the connector at J120 has been damaged at some point . There is 1 or 2 wires that are now soldered directly onto the pins ..  . Not only that most / all of the wires coming from J120 have been cut / re joined and some of these joins must be a bit dodgy ( hence the intermittent door problem ) .

Bloody hackers !! 

Oh well at least I know the cause of the problem now so should be all good soon .

[goodolddays]

Excellent find and great detective work Cruiserman 

[AskJacob]

J120 is a notorious connector. All the GI strings are powered by this connector, and it almost always will be burnt, if not already replaced.

Sadly, sometimes as you have found, it does not get repaired properly...

The good news is that changing from #44 lamps to #47 will dramtically reduce the load on these connectors, and the fact that in home use they will not be on 16 hours a day means once fixed they will not need any attention in the future...

The bummer here is that J120 is only for GI, so won't be related to the idol lock problem :(

The idol lock solenoid is solenoid 6, Pin 7 on J130 with a violet/blue wire, if that helps the chase....

Cheers
Jacob

[MrMaloo]

The Indy is all fixed now and working 100%  . thanks to Ken (SkyBeaux) . He replaced the connectors at J120 and J121 as well as done the battery mod to change the 3 x AA batteries to the 1 x Li-Ion battery . He also changed a few diodes and transistors which give the power to the idol door lock which we thought fixed the problem but in the end it turned out to be a dodgy coil . THANKS KEN !!   

[Extra Ball]

Nice to have it fully working Scott.
 

[Skybeaux]

No worries Scott.
Glad it's all working well again for you