Author Topic: ? WAY TO USE LED'S ? WHAT DO U THINK. ?  (Read 1736 times)

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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: ? WAY TO USE LED'S ? WHAT DO U THINK. ?
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2010, 10:58:55 AM »
so it seems frosted LED's for GI are the best ? looks bloody nice shootar, bloody nice indeed.   ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
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Offline FirePower

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Re: ? WAY TO USE LED'S ? WHAT DO U THINK. ?
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2010, 07:39:06 PM »
For anybody other than Beaky and I who is reading this thread, I'd say just buy some Cointaker or Ablaze leds, pay attention to colour, polarity and stick 'em in - then enjoy fiddling, moving them around and playing with your toy which is why we're all here. Then have a beer to celebrate.

For Beaky and anybody else who is still following or even remotely interested in the to and fro of the techno bable and willie waving that we're both engaged in I think we've just about reached the point where we can't add any further and will just have to agree to disagree. I'll have one more attempt and await your response telling me where and why I'm wrong.  I take it all in good humour, feel and trust you do too, and the only thing that is offended is my sense of good elegant circuit design! 

I reckon you'd benefit from looking around and reading up on current design trends, ideas and thinking.  This application note on driving leds put out by Texas Instruments puts it pretty well. http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slyt084/slyt084.pdf  Have a quick read of the section headed "Direct Control of Current" for a good summary of why not to use voltage control and why to use current control.

The reason people have had to use the leds with resistors to stick them in pins is much like your argument that you continued to wire in parallel because of a legacy machine. Basically it's a cheap, inefficient cludge, but that doesn't mean it's good practice and certainly wouldn't be the way to go if starting with a fresh sheet of paper, either for a pin or a commercial lighting product.     

Some of the arguments you've put up are either the same as what I'm saying or support those ideas, some of them you selectively and arguably wrongly interpret.  A classic being your point that the Vf across leds will be different, this is precisely why you want to put them in series and regulate current.

The 724 data sheet that you quote is largely irrelevant - it's just a dc to dc regulator. A poor old design doesn't become a good design just through passage of time or number of units made. It's a case of using not the best technique or approach for the application - nowhere does the 724 data sheet mention its' use or suitability for regulating leds - that's 'cause it's not that suitable.  All it does is get you a voltage that works with the combo you have, the resistor is doing the real job.   Take a look at the Maxim MAX1698 chip, specifically designed for driving leds. Notice that they talk about current regulation of multiple parallel strings of series leds and describe a trivially simple and standard method of protection for the (unlikely) event of a led failing open circuit.  Notice how easy it is to regulate intensity over a very wide turn down ratio. This would be an ideal candidate (simple, efficient, handles up to 5W) for the application that brought me into this discussion; namely driving, with good variable control, GI leds. 

Between 2005 and now there have been enormous leaps forward in led technology and an explosion in efficient led use and it's likely these specific chips weren't around in the period 2000 to 2005 (current regulated designs were then and they remain now the most appropriate way to control led brightness) - luckily the chips are here, available now, simplifying things a bit.

For a really nice off the shelf, just install solution have a look at the LumiLeds buckpuck controllers.

Anyway, enough from me, thanks for the good humoured discussion and I'm happy to let you try swim against the tide, eventually you'll end up down river.  I intend this to be my last post in this thread unless you come up with something really good, exceptionally bad or stunningly controversial.  All the best, hope you leds burn long and bright, I am now going out the back to bury the soldering iron.  Cheers, Firepower.

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: ? WAY TO USE LED'S ? WHAT DO U THINK. ?
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2010, 09:18:39 PM »
I have been looking at various videos on youtube, in videos u can see the big difference with LED's, in a photo, u cant see much at all.

I have decided to take the plunge and just order some and see what i can come up with.  ^^^
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline beaky

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Re: ? WAY TO USE LED'S ? WHAT DO U THINK. ?
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2010, 09:51:37 PM »
I would agree in theory that when designing a new sealed led light that this would be the way to go,(i would have to run many tests before doing a run of circuit boards with this type of circuit) but as far as running leds on a string or in a pinball machine i will stick to the method i have used for years.
The reason why i stick to this in a pinball is because it is not practical to re wire every lighting circuit in a pin.
The reason why i stick to this with leds on a string is because in every application that was bought off the company i worked for the customer would order x meters of led string lighting and cut it to the lengths that were required and connect it to a power supply. in most applications they would not even use all the leds. so if the leds where wired in series there would be a great chance that the leds would be cut half way through one of the series.
there are other problems you run into when running long lengths of cable with leds in commercial applications which you only learn through many tests.

any way i have had fun with this discussion fire power  ^^^

I will finish my last post on this thread regarding using current regulation for leds. How many of you seen led traffic lights with large ammounts of the leds out? I have seen many of them, the power supply on these led fittings are current regulated.   &&



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Offline pinballheaven

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Re: ? WAY TO USE LED'S ? WHAT DO U THINK. ?
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2010, 07:00:45 PM »
I did my Harley Davidson replacing GIs and some other general playfield globes and I know people take pics etc of before/after but you really have to see the results in person for yourself, it really transforms a machine. But like everything we all have different tastes, but if you get an opportunity to see one that has been modified, even partially you will be impressed.

Offline Extra Ball

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Re: ? WAY TO USE LED'S ? WHAT DO U THINK. ?
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2010, 08:19:57 PM »
I cant have LEDs close to the flippers ie slingshots and return lanes, the flicker distracts me, and makes it harder to time shots.

Offline MrMaloo

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Re: ? WAY TO USE LED'S ? WHAT DO U THINK. ?
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2010, 03:33:08 PM »
I cant have LEDs close to the flippers ie slingshots and return lanes, the flicker distracts me, and makes it harder to time shots.

What led's did you have in the slings and returns Greg . I have the frosted type and don't get any flickering .

Offline Extra Ball

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Re: ? WAY TO USE LED'S ? WHAT DO U THINK. ?
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2010, 08:18:16 PM »
I cant have LEDs close to the flippers ie slingshots and return lanes, the flicker distracts me, and makes it harder to time shots.

What led's did you have in the slings and returns Greg . I have the frosted type and don't get any flickering .

Not sure if I tried frosted in there Scott, may have to get some and try.