Gottlieb - It is under the hood that counts

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

Just thought I would start a topic and open for discussion what you guys think about who had the best under playfield components.  For me it is Gottlieb hands down, very reliable and long lasting.  From EMs thru System 1, System 80s and System 3 Gottlieb under playfield components far out weighted Williams, Bally, Stern and Data East / Sega....in my humble opinion.

Sure electroniclly it is a different story, but Gottlieb flippers, targets, coil set ups, pop bumpers etc etc ...the list goes on ...are very reliable.

Your thoughts?  I liken them to old cars they were built much more solid and too last...

GO GOTTLIEB  

Any thoughts?

[studley67]

i agree although they are bloody heavier

[Retropin]

Oh Dean.... Tough call mate.

Till the 70,s i too give it to Gottlieb.
In the 70,s though i have to go for Williams. DC flippers make Gottlieb games look like a slow train on a tea break.
I find both Gottlieb AND Williams 70's EM games to be mechanically reliable, but the design of the main relay bank on score motor shits me... its ALWAYS the switch UNDERNEATH that i have to adjust or clean - absolute pain in the butt and poor design in my book.
OK - no drop targets on WMS, but the games are twice as fast as Gottlieb.
So reliability.. i reckon the same... but give it to WMS for DC flippers.

GTB SYS 1 is a joke.. couldnt have got it worse.. a COMPLETE lack of understanding about grounding.

SYS 80.... Still didnt get it right


Its not really till SYS 3 that i reckon GTB made a solid system... this is a great system, mine runs fautlessly.

Overall though... on absolutely everything... i still lean towards Williams

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

Oh Dean.... Tough call mate.

Till the 70,s i too give it to Gottlieb.
In the 70,s though i have to go for Williams. DC flippers make Gottlieb games look like a slow train on a tea break.
I find both Gottlieb AND Williams 70's EM games to be mechanically reliable, but the design of the main relay bank on score motor shits me... its ALWAYS the switch UNDERNEATH that i have to adjust or clean - absolute pain in the butt and poor design in my book.
OK - no drop targets on WMS, but the games are twice as fast as Gottlieb.
So reliability.. i reckon the same... but give it to WMS for DC flippers.

GTB SYS 1 is a joke.. couldnt have got it worse.. a COMPLETE lack of understanding about grounding.

SYS 80.... Still didnt get it right


Its not really till SYS 3 that i reckon GTB made a solid system... this is a great system, mine runs fautlessly.

Overall though... on absolutely everything... i still lean towards Williams

Gav, remember I am talking mechanical dependibility and manufacture, not electrical or electronic which was crap

[ddstoys]

They all had there good and bad points Gottlieb flippers and drop targets were great where williams sucked.   But williams score motors and DC coils really sped things up if those coils were set up in the gottliebs mechs WOW what a machine

[pinnies4me]

Its not really till SYS 3 that i reckon GTB made a solid system... this is a great system, mine runs fautlessly.

Mostly agreed, although their sys 3 flipper design is absolutely crap - I seriously want to swap out the gottlieb ones for Williams on my Stargate.

[Strangeways]

much of a muchness to me. I love working on all manufacturers. Gottlieb were simple and reliable (70's) - plenty of space to work in. The Drop Targets were a pain to work on, but the score motors etc were more "logical" and schematics were easier to follow. Ballys were better than Williams. Williams four player machines and the player unit / coin unit were an absolute pain to work on at times. However, once "tuned" they were ok. Bally SS blew away the williams - just look at the drop target and flipper assemblies ! Gottlieb sys 1/80 were just like the EMs - except with no room to work and WAY too much going on. Gottlieb "over simplified" the design. They made some awesome machines, but under the bonnet became a bit of a nightmare. System 3 machines are the most reliable, so not much time is spent under the hood. Except for the flipper assemblies. Bally / Williams are ok - depends on the game. Sterns are similar to Bally / Williams. Data East have an annoying GI system with no plugs. Soldered straight onto jumper boards. A real pain.

[Extra Ball]

gtb EMs best machines that will EVER be made