Copyright issue

[pinball god]

Was just reading the thread in the mini pins and wg closing the guy down awhile ago and had this thought.

How would this scenario pan out for argument sake. I want cabinet decals for a T2 and have scans (which I don't but let's pretend I do). Also the cost side of things is somewhat prohibitive to go to print etc etc. Would things still be breaking copyright if a group of us all owning T2's got together and did a mass print?

If this didn't contravene copyright couldn't this be done for other parts.

Interested in the flaws in my argument

[Strangeways]

You are well within your rights to create the files to reproduce the cab art for your own game. I believe the "technical" name is "the right to restore" for a machine you own. Similar to the copyright of a DVD (movie or game) - you are well withing your rights to reproduce a BACKUP copy for your own use as long as you still own the original copy.

I'm sure someone might know the "exact" wording, so I'm interested to hear if I am close.

[Homepin]

I am able to have your cabinet art printed at prices so low you couldn't even go out and buy the material...........................I don't have the art but if you were to supply it and I had only ONE copy printed I am assured by my legal guy that this if OK as you are using the goods for your own restoration and you are 'seeking me out' to do the printing that you are unable to do yourself.

This does not break any copywrite rules - even if some previous WMS rights holder seems to believe it does. Remember, this and many other 'rights claims' made by this gentleman over the years have NEVER been tested in court because (again this is my advice only) he would have been on very shaky ground.

With all that said - send me your artwork and I'll print them for you 

[wonder]

Was just reading the thread in the mini pins and wg closing the guy down awhile ago and had this thought.

How would this scenario pan out for argument sake. I want cabinet decals for a T2 and have scans (which I don't but let's pretend I do). Also the cost side of things is somewhat prohibitive to go to print etc etc. Would things still be breaking copyright if a group of us all owning T2's got together and did a mass print?

If this didn't contravene copyright couldn't this be done for other parts.

Interested in the flaws in my argument

Good question as i would like to do my t2 as well one day.Got a nos playfield and translight but no point unless i do the cabinet as well.

[Boots]

Was just reading the thread in the mini pins and wg closing the guy down awhile ago and had this thought.

How would this scenario pan out for argument sake. I want cabinet decals for a T2 and have scans (which I don't but let's pretend I do). Also the cost side of things is somewhat prohibitive to go to print etc etc. Would things still be breaking copyright if a group of us all owning T2's got together and did a mass print?

If this didn't contravene copyright couldn't this be done for other parts.

Interested in the flaws in my argument

I imagine that distribution of the digital artwork (scans) would contravene copyright, much like the situation with Gottlieb Pinball Manuals.
Then again someone would have to prove that you got the artwork from somebody else.
It does seem silly sometimes that other parts that a licensed distributor doesn't have available for sale (and never will have) can still be controlled by them.

[Strangeways]

Was just reading the thread in the mini pins and wg closing the guy down awhile ago and had this thought.

How would this scenario pan out for argument sake. I want cabinet decals for a T2 and have scans (which I don't but let's pretend I do). Also the cost side of things is somewhat prohibitive to go to print etc etc. Would things still be breaking copyright if a group of us all owning T2's got together and did a mass print?

If this didn't contravene copyright couldn't this be done for other parts.

Interested in the flaws in my argument

I imagine that distribution of the digital artwork (scans) would contravene copyright, much like the situation with Gottlieb Pinball Manuals.
Then again someone would have to prove that you got the artwork from somebody else.
It does seem silly sometimes that other parts that a licensed distributor doesn't have available for sale (and never will have) can still be controlled by them.

Gottlieb Manuals - I photocopy my original manuals so that when I'm working on a machine, I can scribble notes and keep it for future reference. If I don't own a manual, I buy one. I'm happy to support the owners of the copyright. If I sold the photocopies, then I would expect to be prosecuted. Steve is quiet lenient (within reason). I once required Pro Football flipper bat decals. He was out of stock and gave me permission to scan my old decals and reproduce them on one condition - it was for my game and not to be onsold. Gottlieb LLC are really GREAT to work with and support the hobbyists.

Cabinet decals - An interesting topic. Digital artwork may include photos of the decals, or the decals on a machine ? If I wanted to restore a DMD with missing or damaged artwork, and that artwork was unavailable to purchase, then I have the right to restore the artwork. If that means "reproducing" that artwork for that machine, then surely I should be able to ? If I knew an artist and a printer capable of reproducing that damaged artwork, for a machine I own, then I believe I can do this without breaching copyright ? As long as I destroy the original files, and I don't make a second copy, and I don't try to sell the files or copie(s), then I should be ok ? Now I'm not sure 100%, but if a license holder tried to prosecute me for a breach of copyright, he would have to prove to a court that there was a loss of earnings. Given the sideart is not commercially available and I have not made a profit on the artwork, then I don't think I'm breaking the law. At the end of the process, I have a machine that has been faithfully restored.

If someone prints off and distributes decals without asking permission, then that would attract court proceedings (and rightly so)

I believe it is an interesting topic for discussion, and really, it is a matter of opinion as I don't think anyone was ever prosecuted.

[pinball god]

I am able to have your cabinet art printed at prices so low you couldn't even go out and buy the material...........................I don't have the art but if you were to supply it and I had only ONE copy printed I am assured by my legal guy that this if OK as you are using the goods for your own restoration and you are 'seeking me out' to do the printing that you are unable to do yourself.

This does not break any copywrite rules - even if some previous WMS rights holder seems to believe it does. Remember, this and many other 'rights claims' made by this gentleman over the years have NEVER been tested in court because (again this is my advice only) he would have been on very shaky ground.

With all that said - send me your artwork and I'll print them for you 

Thanks for the offer but I do not have a scan of the artwork. I just thought it was interesting to bring up the topic. My T2 is looking sad with respect to the cabinet so I'll have to do something about that in the future. Thanks again

[Caveoftreasures]

Scan the artwork, find someone who knows how to use Corel Draw or something similar, do your own sets.

OR
you can do what i did. I told a melbourne supplier who has a printer that I was about to start selling both Black Knight 2000 and No Fear decals on ebay for $299.
Within a few weeks, he was selling perfectly printed quality decal sets for $249.00 for both BK2000 and No Fear which had never been available anywhere before. 

I will tell him I am about to do Terminator 2, Dr Who and ten others that are not available. Theres more than one way to skin a cat.lol 

[swinks]

Add Creature decals to the list, am in desperate need for a set.

[faza]

From what ive been told is that WG will sell you Anything Addams as long as you prove that you have destroyed the original ?????????????
As it is only replacing what you already had, surely this must apply to other machines.

[Boots]

Scan the artwork, find someone who knows how to use Corel Draw or something similar, do your own sets.

OR
you can do what i did. I told a melbourne supplier who has a printer that I was about to start selling both Black Knight 2000 and No Fear decals on ebay for $299.
Within a few weeks, he was selling perfectly printed quality decal sets for $249.00 for both BK2000 and No Fear which had never been available anywhere before. 

I will tell him I am about to do Terminator 2, Dr Who and ten others that are not available. Theres more than one way to skin a cat.lol 

Gold

[Retropin]

You can do what you like with whatever you fancy to your machines... copyright is only an issue when it becomes a commercial entity.
Copyright is also only an issue if someone is prepared to do anything about it.
WG made it a lifestyle.. especially for Australians....... he let so many USA deals go unhindered it was unreal.

Licensed materials or reproductions are SUPPOSED to guarantee a level of quality that the reproduction is true to original and of same quality or better.

Unfortunately, this does not apply to many licenced products available.


Who really cares if you print some decals for your machine??

[Caveoftreasures]

Re cabinet decals, its about restoration, not making money. If the decals are not available anywhere in the world, and havent been ever, or arent going to be ever, who is going to have a hissy fit over a lousy dozen sets if you end up doing that many to help out others. And if someone does have a hissy fit, i say they can kiss my ass.

If the so called licence holders arent doing decals for a machine, then do them yourself, and if u decide to share a dozen or two sets with other people who need them for their faded cabinets, well good on ya. Its not about profit with this stuff, it never has been, its about helping pinball collectors/restorers who need new cabinet decals to bring a machine back to life. People have been doing cabinet decals and sharing them on the quiet for many many years. Its only when u jump on ebay and try n flog similar sets to the commercial sellers for the same $ that u get noticed and have to worry about hissy fits. Restoration beats greed, and the lack of availability year in, year out.

[pinnies4me]

Re cabinet decals, its about restoration, not making money. If the decals are not available anywhere in the world, and havent been ever, or arent going to be ever, who is going to have a hissy fit over a lousy dozen sets if you end up doing that many to help out others. And if someone does have a hissy fit, i say they can kiss my ass.

If the so called licence holders arent doing decals for a machine, then do them yourself, and if u decide to share a dozen or two sets with other people who need them for their faded cabinets, well good on ya. Its not about profit with this stuff, it never has been, its about helping pinball collectors/restorers who need new cabinet decals to bring a machine back to life. People have been doing cabinet decals and sharing them on the quiet for many many years. Its only when u jump on ebay and try n flog similar sets to the commercial sellers for the same $ that u get noticed and have to worry about hissy fits. Restoration beats greed, and the lack of availability year in, year out.

While I agree with the sentiment, I just want to point out that this forum doesn't encourage breaching copyright, even if well-intentioned. Licence holders paid for their rights, and have the right to protect those rights. And there's way too much ignorance on this issue - things like No Fear and T2, AF etc often rely on further rights, and even the licence holders cannot always secure reproduction go ahead.

It seems (and this is not a legal opinion nor forum endorsement) that reproducing artwork to repair or restore your own game is possibly allowable, but selling non-licenced product does carry some risk. Those that wish to take that risk, good on you for trying and for assisting others with similar needs.

[faza]

I wonder how Repco etc make all there aftermarket spare parts for cars without breaching manufactureer copyright??????????????
I don't have a problem if the part is available but if no one manufactures it then its a bit rich too complain .
Thats my opinion anyway