Copyright

[mildflame]

  what is the copyright for pinball machines pre 80 ect.?

[chris288]

Without going into too much depth with all the legal bullshit ( Of which I would have no idea ) most of the companies that originally made pinballs have long since gone with the exception of maybe Stern  and perhaps one or two others, but even so the copyrights for artworks ( playfields, backglasses etc) remain with the copyright holders and anyone doing reproductions for commercial gain have to have permission ( and usually pay licensing fees ) from the copyright holders.

I think the generally accepted rule of thumb is that if you own a particular machine and want new ROMs for the CPU boards or if you want to scan a mates backglass because yours is broken or missing then you can do it provided its for you only and you're not selling them for a profit.

Thats my limited understanding of the whole issue - Anyone else feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or add anything missed.

[Retropin]

US law states......

Post 1982 ( i think) EVEYTHING is subject to copyright.
Pre 1982 copyright only exists if applied for. Most if not all pinball art had copyright applied for... mind you, you will NEVER find out the truth!

[elkor-alish]

Without going into too much depth with all the legal bullshit ( Of which I would have no idea ) most of the companies that originally made pinballs have long since gone with the exception of maybe Stern  and perhaps one or two others, but even so the copyrights for artworks ( playfields, backglasses etc) remain with the copyright holders and anyone doing reproductions for commercial gain have to have permission ( and usually pay licensing fees ) from the copyright holders.

I think the generally accepted rule of thumb is that if you own a particular machine and want new ROMs for the CPU boards or if you want to scan a mates backglass because yours is broken or missing then you can do it provided its for you only and you're not selling them for a profit.

Thats my limited understanding of the whole issue - Anyone else feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or add anything missed.

What if you made stuff for yourself and others but there is no profit on the items?

[Homepin]

Without going into too much depth with all the legal bullshit ( Of which I would have no idea ) most of the companies that originally made pinballs have long since gone with the exception of maybe Stern  and perhaps one or two others, but even so the copyrights for artworks ( playfields, backglasses etc) remain with the copyright holders and anyone doing reproductions for commercial gain have to have permission ( and usually pay licensing fees ) from the copyright holders.

I think the generally accepted rule of thumb is that if you own a particular machine and want new ROMs for the CPU boards or if you want to scan a mates backglass because yours is broken or missing then you can do it provided its for you only and you're not selling them for a profit.

Thats my limited understanding of the whole issue - Anyone else feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or add anything missed.

What if you made stuff for yourself and others but there is no profit on the items?

Nope - it has nothing to do with profit - you can make for your OWN USE only but the minute you make for someone else (even for free) you are breaking the idiotic copyright laws.

[pinnies4me]

Making stuff and giving it away would potentially rob the copyright owner of the ability to sell to those people.

[Greg]

Making stuff and giving it away would potentially rob the copyright owner of the ability to sell to those people.

thats correct

[mildflame]

Making stuff and giving it away would potentially rob the copyright owner of the ability to sell to those people.

thats correct

but what about things like a 1970's set of plastics? that arn't being sold! would you be allowed to remake then "give away" or even "sell" to others?

[pinnies4me]

but what about things like a 1970's set of plastics? that arn't being sold! would you be allowed to remake then "give away" or even "sell" to others?

Can't you see that doing so would potentially rob the copyright owner of the ability to sell them if it decided to one day? Just because the owner doesn't choose to sell at the moment doesn't change things.

[Retropin]

Making stuff and giving it away would potentially rob the copyright owner of the ability to sell to those people.

thats correct

but what about things like a 1970's set of plastics? that arn't being sold! would you be allowed to remake then "give away" or even "sell" to others?

No as you dont have copyright owners permission... wether its on sale or not.. makes no difference

[Homepin]

Making stuff and giving it away would potentially rob the copyright owner of the ability to sell to those people.

thats correct

but what about things like a 1970's set of plastics? that arn't being sold! would you be allowed to remake then "give away" or even "sell" to others?

No as you dont have copyright owners permission... wether its on sale or not.. makes no difference

and that's why I called the laws "idiotic"….......

[Strangeways]

You have patents which are valid for 21 or 25 years - they expire, and anyone can buy them. You pay for the patent, and therefore you can control the production and distribution. You can even on-sell the patent.

Copyright does not really exist on pinball parts, that's the job of patents. Copyright is more for documentation such as manuals, schematics etc.

A backglass is more of a patent, but I'm not sure. Under the "right to restore" you can produce your own backglass BUT according to the law, you may have to destroy or forfeit the original.

You can ask permission from the patent owner to produce your own part - Gottlieb LLC are EXCELLENT with this regard. Bally Williams would be more approachable these days. For the EM machines, Gottlieb LCC still would police anything made without their consent. It is unclear about Bally or Williams EMs. I was once told that Williams games prior to 1982 were not under any patent. Same with Bally.

Having said that - If you picked out a Playboy or KISS and wanted to produce a plastics set for resale, you would have a cease a desist from the band or Hugh Hefner's estate.

It is VERY complicated, and I've heard conflicting stories - everyone has their "own version". It is a little more "relaxed" these days, but you can't blame the patent owners for protecting their investment.

[greatwichjohn]

I just got back from Expo, had a private dinner with Gary Stern. We all got cheap can of pop & a piece of pizza with other pinball nuts for $10 each. Gary stated that for side art on Stern Pinball would only be available for a maximum 7 years or less, that you could be shit out of luck at any time. Try getting a license to repro that stuff, & it might be very hard.

My personal understanding of restoring playfields since 2007 with direct ink or uv printing (Sorcerer's & Space Shuttle's). Where a owner sends in a worn playfield for restoration. There is no problem from WMS for Bally & Williams titles, should be no problem with early Stern (i'm doing Star Gazer & then Seawitch playfields), & Gottlieb has been the only one saying you need permission. Gottlieb I will try for new playfields anyways in 2012. Also going for newer titles like Monster Bash, & others for restoration. So if anyone is good with art, i'm looking for playfield art, & you will be compensated!