I can see this thread starting to deteriorate and go much the same way as many others.

yep.

Sorry if I contributed but still hold firm, there are elements that seem to be want to push points forever. If I seem to over step the mark or even get insulted I pull away and hope a thread gets back on track. Those I think are the problem aren't bad people, but like I said a long time ago, need to just settle down and dump the thread if people just don't get their point. You sometimes can't change people's opinions and should realize this and don't bother trying. Your friends know where you're coming from so stop stressing

Btw I'm just trying to explain how I see the problem and not pushing or offering a solution as honestly I do not believe there is one

I'd like an impartial person(s) to evaluate how this thread has moved way off from how to improve the site and point out those that have brought it back to the same problem. I'm happy to be found out if I have contributed and then will have a good hard look at myself. Thanks