Author Topic: New company start up models for all the new companies  (Read 637 times)

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Offline swinks

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New company start up models for all the new companies
« on: June 29, 2014, 08:09:30 PM »
I watched in a little bit of surprise the negative backlash of the recent Vonnie D startup attempt. It still is very earlier days and admittedly the crowd funding request is a little unbalanced. I do believe for their particular case if they had a playable white wood it would have given more faith and a gained more support by the public.

There seems to be a number of models that all these pinball companies are using and some people are comfortable and some that people are really starting to get tied of.

Stern - are established so they don't really come into play in this discussion as they are pumping out 3-4 different games a year. Yes some of their game types can upset people with Pro's, Premiums and LE's but this discussion is more for the start up companies of 2013-2015.

JJP - was a partially self funded but also in affect a crowd funded project as surely alot of the sales funded his factory creation and when he started there wasn't a playing game (I think, my memory serves me but accept if I am wrong here). But this model has had it's dramas with people that laid deposits even in the US getting games after those that got a game through a dealer without laying down deposits.

Spooky Pinball - has been a self funded and I take my hats off to them as they did not want to take any money until official production started and would go out the door within a few months of taking a deposit and he is doing this in batches of 25. Ben created a game and made it quite public in the leadup giving people a say to a degree but proving to people that their first game had potential in design and programming. They are not aiming for massive production numbers (at the moment) and are learning alot about it the process and growing at a rate that suits them.

Skit B Pinball - built a playable game and showed the world and got faith with the potential, with art and game rules developing while people had locked in with their deposits.The lure with this game is owning 1 of 250 only made. The downside on this one is the guys operation is extremely small and it has taken alot longer to build and deliver.

Dutch Pinball - started a different tact by developing a dmd upgrade kit for the Pinbot pin and gained support through proof that they have programming skills. Their lure is a cheaper price if you buy ahead of time or pay a bit more when it is out for the public to (though admitedly neither is that cheap for us Aussies) play and test. It is still unknown if they are being built in The Netherlands or elsewhere but they seem to have a professional team and they are sending out info to lure new buyers every few weeks including a playfield layout as the early teaser to gain faith and support as well as the specific theme which will suit a specific person.

Heighway Pinball - started by sharing info on their development but learnt through a few design challenges that best to wait until the game is ready to launch when complete and like Stern is not asking for money up front at this stage. He is totally self funded and setting up a factory with the prospect of a smarter designed pin for the operator with quick swappable assemblies and playfields etc. Early on had no real well known designers / artists which lead to some negative feedback but was positive in that it showed experienced designers and artists and part of the key to a potentially successful product.

Homepin - has announced his new pin late last year and like Dutch Pinball is giving a better price in advance or you can wait until it is launched and can be play tested and buy at a higher price. Homepins experience is electronics and sure this to be rock solid but the designers behind it is a mystery so there is some risk there as well as artists.

Planetary Pinball - is another recent company that has license rights for the classic WMS ans Bally's and potentially Capcom and has access to all the parts and has been building up art etc for a number of years and dealing in pinball parts for many years. The machines he is building are the high demand classics so he has been smart in already knowing what will sell well and now is just about delivering to the people a game that feels like the original. The killer I believe is if it isn't as reliable or feels different the support could  become wary but sure games like Monster Bash, BBB and Kingpin and TOTAN all could be potential next in line games and he has also set up a deal with Stern to build them so no expensive factory required. But has cashed in on 1000 LE's on announcement which I suppose gets the ball rolling for his venture and Stern's venture of the factory upgrade.

Vonnie D - is the latest in pinball company and in effect similar to some aspects of most of the above as they are passionate about pinball and have some neat ideas but approaching it differently, with a suppose the difference is like others it is crowd funded to a degree but no mention of refundable payments but like above the same could very well happen like it did with JJP - nothing is a guarantee.


Am curious where other people stand as I for myself want to be able to see the game in pictures, video and play if possible but this is harder with many of these smaller / new companies as you have to TRUST that it will be a good game due to the potential rarity and availability here in Aus.

Where do you stand??

What are your thoughts on Kickstarter style projects, or what improvements would you like to see for you to bite the bullet to fund a kickstarter project?
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Offline Freiherr

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I am glad that there are a lot of new companies giving it a go but not sure how many will survive long term. Back in the old days, half a dozen manufacturers pumped out a title every couple of months and sold reasonable volumes to mainly operators and arcades. Pins were made back then mainly to make lots of money. These days they are mainly made to collect. I personaly do not have the space or money to buy one or two NIBs every year. All these new starters need to target the younger generations and not just the oler collector. Not sure if their models have considered that important factor. Unless you can hook the younger player, you will not succeed. I started playing pinball in 1967at the age of 8 and kept playing a lot up to 1983 when I focused on my career over pinball. The same hook probably happened to the next generation in the late 80s and 90s, so they were your 2 great pinball eras of the past. The last few years have seen a resurgence due to these 2 generations of players creating man caves and home collections. What next? Anyone's guess.
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Offline Retropin

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Well im glad you documented it as I was getting confused with who was making what.
The notion that you pay upfront for something unseen and in fact just an idea and a promise on the part of the manufacturer is unique to pinball alone. Until this sales pitch became the norm, only the cockney barrow boys in London could get people to part with good money for something they had on their mind.. the items were always as dodgy as hell and you came away knowing that you got ripped off by a smiling cheeky bugger.
The debacle at JJP has really brought to the fore just how fragile this type of marketing can be. Is the end game good?? Well that's always a matter of opinion and one mans great game is a complete turn off for others.. so to stump money upfront and hope for the best???...F**king hell.. you've got to have screws loose to do this.
Personally, I wouldn't pay for a machine unseen, its just not common sense. I know you can get the game a bit cheaper, but in all honesty be it $5K or $7K, its still a shit load of cash for a toy.
Now you can throw out a title that the manufacturer is to release and that title may sound like it could be done well, but that doesn't mean my idea of it is going to be on par with the manufacturers.
 JJP's artwork for Hobbitt is just SO ordinary and predictable. Had I put money upfront for this, id be regretting it now. I see nothing that inspires me.
The lower PF for The Big Lebowski looks really cool and I like it a lot. Wasn't keen on the title but I may end up wanting one. Its snippets like this that get me excited.
TAG??... I reckon could be a cracker of a title and im busting to see something that equates to the game play/ artwork etc. Until then, theres nothing really to talk about.
Spooky? Artwork looks very "Scooby Dooish" and I like it but so far nothing to inspire any desire and its just as well its self funded.
Skit B have played a clever game.. limit the numbers and let it be known... collectors LOVE LE and pinheads like to own the rarer titles... BUT.. rare often means that production stopped due to a boring and non profitable game, so rare is not always best.
Vonni D - I like their style, its punchy and left of centre.. im hoping that the machine is in the same nature.. but again, its all potatoes and gravy with no meat to look at.

This is my take on it and my thoughts are that if you are willing to buy something that you know nothing about then your bloody bonkers!

Offline skywalker

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Great write up Jady,
No more pre orders, been there done that, best of luck to the guys above with getting there projects up & going, Would like to hear from Mike on how he is going to tackle future announcements if hes sticking with early PO's & worth all the extra headache & work,

need more than a white wood demo, wait 2/3 years, just wait & see if hobbit gets dragged out like woz early next year & those PO guys want there $$ back, Kick starter/pre orders programs are dead IMO,
 

« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 09:19:26 PM by skywalker »

Marty Machine

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Call me old-fashioned, but if i can see it, feel it, play it....then i'll buy it, assuming gameplay stimulates me..

MM

Offline pinsanity

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The debacle at JJP has really brought to the fore just how fragile this type of marketing can be.

It is indicative of how fragile the entire industry really is despite all the huff and puff of a pinball renaissance.

All risk has been shifted onto the consumer.




Marty Machine

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The debacle at JJP has really brought to the fore just how fragile this type of marketing can be.
It is indicative of how fragile the entire industry really is despite all the huff and puff of a pinball renaissance.
All risk has been shifted onto the consumer.
Yes, it's a risky environment in todays economic climate worldwide, and many many companies outside of pinball are also throwing everything onto the consumer to cover costs...at worst case if the project dies, the consumers lose, and the company head walks away 'lossless'.

Buyer beware.

Offline oldskool1969

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This is gonna be a ball tearer of a thread SWINKSY mate.
Kick starters are ridiculous IMO. I love the fact everyone is having a crack, but, fair fxxxking dinkum, if you have spare money to throw at a luxurious toy, throw it at solving real world issues as well.
I love this hobby, but why does everyone think we can make money out of it? Or am I in it for the wrong reason  *!@

WOW that was deep coming from me!
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Offline solar value

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Nice summary of the field. You can add Zidware, the guy making Captain Nemo and Circus Maximus soon.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 11:23:51 PM by solar value »

Offline Strangeways

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The "Pinball Renaissance" has been driven by proven successful titles from the major pinball companies. Old games that simply provide an escape for us older goons with money. A lot of us are "set in our ways" and find it hard to accept the latest games from not only the boutique manufacturers, but also from Stern. I for one, are still "stuck in the past" when games simply could not fail, as they were produced "solely" for making operators money. We were blessed with legendary designers like Ed Krynsky, Steve Kordek, Wayne Neyens, Norm Clark, Jim Patla, Greg Kmiec and the later designers Lawlor, Richie and Popadiuk. It was an industry that is part of Americana.

For ANY individual or conglomerate to even attempt to produce a pinball should be given every opportunity and support because the standards set 50 years ago will be very difficult in a marketplace that is not even 10% of what it once was. I remember playing "Coconut Island" at Nug's place and I was totally blown away at the finished product.

The problem I see is that there are many boutique machines being attempted, all vying for our hard earned cash and sometimes the "stop and start" nature of these efforts can very quickly lose interest for some. The pre order lesson has been learned. What happened with WOZ has really created a cynical outlook on most of these projects. I certainly would never put a cent towards any project without standing in front of the finished game. I would also be quick to support any game that is produced after playing it. Watching the videos on youtube is a great way of marveling at these projects.

If I was to part with my hard earned, I would look at Homepin's TAG. The theme is basically my childhood fascination, and an engineer is producing the game. It is also an Australian effort, so I would support it. The others are basically overseas, so it is a case of waiting for someone else to order it before deciding. For us Aussie's, we are across the other side of the world. BUT, it is clear that Australia has been the country that has had the biggest pinball growth. More container games are headed HERE than anywhere else. The market is still growing.

The "start up" companies are a niche part of a niche market. There is definitely a place for them, and at the very least, they will force the main player (Stern) to lift their game (no pun intended). There is already evidence of more better titles than flops in recent times. This is great for the buyers. I personally don't pay too much attention to the boutique companies, but the noise is getting louder and I'm starting to take notice. I think that of any of us were able to fly to the USA to one of the shows and see a proto in the flesh, we would be raving about them.

Referring back to my first paragraph, my market is restoration - and the growth is increasing to the point where it is no longer a renaissance. IF a boutique pinball producer can tap into this market with either a theme or designer, then it is great for pinball. The common theme is that ALL these companies, no matter how big or small, LOVE PINBALL. I recently watched on of Steve Kordek's last interviews with James Loflin and Al Warner and you could see that Steve Kordek LOVED his job and loved pinball. All these boutique companies share this important ingredient. If any of these companies were doing it for profit, it would fail. The passion is the key element.
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Offline Pop Bumper Pete

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I like that so many new players are having a go
But we saw with Croc Hunter, you need someone who already has the capacity to build
We saw with WOZ, you need to have prototypes built so youcan test your new hardware

I cannot afford these new games anyway

Offline swinks

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Nice summary of the field. You can add Zidware, the guy making Captain Nemo and Circus Maximus soon.

I don't know how I forgot Zidware - you are correct.
Zidware - probably the first boutique pinball company out of the batch in this thread. He has 13 Magic Girls and 200 Zombie Adventures on the go. He is a top designer and artist but possibly because he doesn't have the push of management like at Bally / WMS he can take more time. Being a perfectionist is probably his negative as he has lots of support for his high end pins (crowdfunded in effect) but taking a long time and some are getting upset when he starts working on say Kiss.

Captain Nemo - to be honest I don't know much about them so not sure on there start up model

Circus Maximus - had to look it up to learn a bit more and it seems they are doing a Heighway / Spooky model start up.
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Offline Pinprick

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Call me old-fashioned, but if i can see it, feel it, play it....then i'll buy it, assuming gameplay stimulates me..

MM

I'm with MM here.
I can barely fund my own projects, let alone someone else's.
No one pre-funds any of my awesome ideas/projects (I would not have the audacity to ask)
Certainly most of these wannabe commercial guys have admirable motives & true design innovations.
But I'm another old fashioned dude who beleives in "piss or get off the pot"

« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 12:26:10 PM by Pinprick »
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Offline Freiherr

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