Pinball Expo 2014 stuff

[swinks]

How can anyone really know any real figures ? 400 is a big call .....?? Were people paying deposits when they were signing up.? If so, does anyone know how much the deposits were ?
I am going to rent the movie cause I remember the cast, but not the movie. Maybe that will answer some questions about the pinball design.

I don't know much about Dutch Pinball but do they have a factory like JJP or Stern or are they going to get the machines made by another manufacturer ?
If they have a factory, does anyone have a link to a video or photos of their factory.
Is there any info on how they have raised capital to get a workforce together like JJP have and what about tooling etc.
Are they using planetary pinball parts or doing their own etc.

They have a massive task ahead of them IF they have anything close to 400 pre-orders etc.
Have they given delivery dates ? Etc.

They seem to have thought outside the square with TBL.
I never thought a 16 yr old movie title would work but it seems to be very popular.
Is there a single owner of Dutch Pinball or is it a consortium of people ?
How long have they been around for ?
As I said, I know little about them.

Do they have any big USA names on their design team. Whoever designed TBL must be clever and have some good experience. Maybe someone could start a Dutch Pinball thread and cover a lot of this stuff for members who may want to know more incase they wanted to buy a TBL Pinball.

Really Cavey.... I know you stated some positive stuff but it's how you start off sometimes, you talk up Stern sales and them doing great without known facts, just enjoy the ride and do some research and learn a bit about them or you could start a thread - Dutch Pinball and see what people post. There are articles around about their design setup and the team.

http://www.dutchpinball.com


400 was the figure coming from talk from the private TBL party and their was 3-4 of the DP team there as well as being present at Pinball Life's show with a machine and it was the highlight of the show, with alot of people being wowed. There was 2 private TBL parties and only people that had paid a deposit were allowed in and could bring one friend so on both nights it looked to have a good crowd. Exactly 1 year ago it was a mystery of who they were as they had the countdown timer for around New Years to release info. The guys did the DMD version of Pinbot which is selling well and pretty sure the dutch guy that does the lcd animations for JJP is part of DP team as well. If anything they are way in front of Stern with a lcd intergration. Before that they started with using Proc and developed their programming skills. They are all keen pinballers with apparently some nice collections. You would be surprised that there is a healthy pinball community in Holland:
- Ministry of Pinball parts supplier
- Dutch Pinball
- Jonathon who writes the Pinball mag
- another small team building the real Timeshock pinball
- Robin you owns and runs Pinside (the biggest Pinball forum around)

They brought over 3 working proto types in early code so people could touch, see and know they are the real deal. I think that alone is impressive and a big expense but the best way to secure confidence and support.

As for designers, pretty sure their team are, no big name US designers, but if it is a good layout and good game play with good art a designers name shouldn't matter once people play and see and start talking about it. Sometimes companies use well known designers to speed up the confidence.

[swinks]

$4500 is the deposit.. rest in instalments

and fully refundable as well, no selling of positions

[Caveoftreasures]

Were people paying $4500 deposit on the seminar days?
IF so, Dutch Pinball must be trusted by the Americans, espescially being a European company half way around the world.

Maybe Someone can start a Dutch Pinball thread. Hint hint hint.

[Crashramp]

http://www.dutchpinball.com


400 was the figure coming from talk from the private TBL party and their was 3-4 of the DP team there as well as being present at Pinball Life's show with a machine and it was the highlight of the show, with alot of people being wowed. There was 2 private TBL parties and only people that had paid a deposit were allowed in and could bring one friend so on both nights it looked to have a good crowd. Exactly 1 year ago it was a mystery of who they were as they had the countdown timer for around New Years to release info. The guys did the DMD version of Pinbot which is selling well and pretty sure the dutch guy that does the lcd animations for JJP is part of DP team as well. If anything they are way in front of Stern with a lcd intergration. Before that they started with using Proc and developed their programming skills. They are all keen pinballers with apparently some nice collections. You would be surprised that there is a healthy pinball community in Holland:
- Ministry of Pinball parts supplier
- Dutch Pinball
- Jonathon who writes the Pinball mag
- another small team building the real Timeshock pinball
- Robin you owns and runs Pinside (the biggest Pinball forum around)

They brought over 3 working proto types in early code so people could touch, see and know they are the real deal. I think that alone is impressive and a big expense but the best way to secure confidence and support.

As for designers, pretty sure their team are, no big name US designers, but if it is a good layout and good game play with good art a designers name shouldn't matter once people play and see and start talking about it. Sometimes companies use well known designers to speed up the confidence.

Great read Jady, very informative. Thanks for posting. I'm not a huge fan of the movie but I really like what I've seen so far from the Dutch Pinball guys, TBL looks like it's going to be a cracker.

[swinks]

here is the Alien proto type playfield design

[Caveoftreasures]

Swinksy, don't take it personally mate, the questioning the 400 wasn't questioning your integrity. Don't read too much into something that was just an opinion and also a healthy question for debate purposes. A difference of opinion doesn't mean we can't all be friends....
I was wondering if the 400 figure was hyped by the sellers at the convention. 400 is a lot of pinnys.
AND yes, Stern figures are not produced or given out public ally either.
The only fact u can bank on is the Stern LE figures cause we know they produce 500 or 1000 etc.

I was being positive about Dutch Pinball which is why I asked so many questions.
I don't want to start a Dutch a Pinball thread cause I know nothing about them.
I was hoping someone like u would do a thread cause u seem to know a lot about them.
No use me starting a thread if I know nothing about them.

Yes, I do know the Dutch have a great pinball industry/interest because I read it on PinballNews.

[Retropin]

Were people paying $4500 deposit on the seminar days?
IF so, Dutch Pinball must be trusted by the Americans, espescially being a European company half way around the world.

Maybe Someone can start a Dutch Pinball thread. Hint hint hint.

The worlds a much smaller place now.. we can all communicate with each other very easily. Funds can, or at least SHOULD be able to transfer from one country to another at the touch of a button ( or many plus large fee if using a bank).
Pinball has changed so much.. USA no longer believes that if it isn't a Gottlieb, it aint worth having... many now realise that WMS and BALLY made some great machines.. even Zaccaria is respected and only because the world has become smaller.
I can get ripped off in Australia, China, USA or any other country for that matter.
Dutch Pinball had some customers who were willing to put money down in blind faith... they've now made the machine and controlled information release VERY well... they've presented the machine and in doing so pretty much put Stern and JJP back in their boxes while at the same time securing many more sales.
All they have done is give the pinball community what they've always wanted.. a well thought out game with some great technical execution. That bowling alley alone tells everyone that these guys can ENGINEER a machine... they knew it was good and now so do we.
If Stern can  secure pre sales by churning out bash toys... JJP by churning out a Stern recipe fairy story, then DP will surpass them all with a serious machine... why wouldn't anyone have confidence in them? Just look at the game.. it is honed into TBL perfectly.. great design well executed.
The European pinball market is huge as is the US... estimated figures are for US sales only so far.
Its a cheap 6 or 7hr flight from US to Holland... when I lived in London, we would fly return to New York just for the weekend for 99 quid instead of going to the pub... that was over 20 years ago. The world has shrunk a lot more now and im pretty sure that from US to Holland doesn't feel like half a world away.
Maybe the world doesn't need respected and known pinball designers.. after all, the recipe is stagnating to a certain extent.
US$ to Euro is gaining strength and those who signed up before the deadline were give a free all chrome upgrade..
..Clever marketing.

[swinks]

Were people paying $4500 deposit on the seminar days?
IF so, Dutch Pinball must be trusted by the Americans, espescially being a European company half way around the world.

Maybe Someone can start a Dutch Pinball thread. Hint hint hint.

The worlds a much smaller place now.. we can all communicate with each other very easily. Funds can, or at least SHOULD be able to transfer from one country to another at the touch of a button ( or many plus large fee if using a bank).
Pinball has changed so much.. USA no longer believes that if it isn't a Gottlieb, it aint worth having... many now realise that WMS and BALLY made some great machines.. even Zaccaria is respected and only because the world has become smaller.
I can get ripped off in Australia, China, USA or any other country for that matter.
Dutch Pinball had some customers who were willing to put money down in blind faith... they've now made the machine and controlled information release VERY well... they've presented the machine and in doing so pretty much put Stern and JJP back in their boxes while at the same time securing many more sales.
All they have done is give the pinball community what they've always wanted.. a well thought out game with some great technical execution. That bowling alley alone tells everyone that these guys can ENGINEER a machine... they knew it was good and now so do we.
If Stern can  secure pre sales by churning out bash toys... JJP by churning out a Stern recipe fairy story, then DP will surpass them all with a serious machine... why wouldn't anyone have confidence in them? Just look at the game.. it is honed into TBL perfectly.. great design well executed.
The European pinball market is huge as is the US... estimated figures are for US sales only so far.
Its a cheap 6 or 7hr flight from US to Holland... when I lived in London, we would fly return to New York just for the weekend for 99 quid instead of going to the pub... that was over 20 years ago. The world has shrunk a lot more now and im pretty sure that from US to Holland doesn't feel like half a world away.
Maybe the world doesn't need respected and known pinball designers.. after all, the recipe is stagnating to a certain extent.
US$ to Euro is gaining strength and those who signed up before the deadline were give a free all chrome upgrade..
..Clever marketing.

Well said Gav,

Don't forget the rug, as a upgrade - cool little extra.

[Caveoftreasures]

I hope every pinball company keeps pushing the envelope so when I buy my Sterns that I like, I will continue to get a great product.
Also, like Ford and Mercedes, I am a loyal customer who sticks with a brand.
I like the guys at Stern like Borgy and the King, Steve Ritchie. Sometimes buying a product is also about rewarding the people you have a lot of respect for. The customer service from Stern has always been outstanding.
I am sure JJP, Dutch Pinball or whoever will get the same loyal following when they look after their customers etc.

As times go past, hopefully the pinny world will have more NEW legends from some of these newer pinball companies.
That will be good for pinball. The more companies the better. This will drive competition, drop prices perhaps, and give the end consumer a better product. We all win.

One word of caution about highly engineered toys on games like that bowling alley on TBL, one always remembers a lot of pinball machines from the past with very intricate moving toys and the various mechanisms which failed over time.
Its good to have very complex toys, but it's no fun if they fail or break over time or need lots of servicing....

Sometimes safe and basic is literally that, safe and basic maintainence.
Nothing worse than a pinball that's broken down. That bowling lane looks impressive, but it looks like its extremely complex. If it breaks down, it might be a nightmare to fix. I did say IF, cause it might also run fine forever, but history is against complex toys on pinballs staying 100 percent working.

Anyway, exciting times ahead. I wish I had a time machine to go 5 years ahead into the future to see the worldwide pinball industry. That would be exciting and a blast for those who are passionate about the pinball hobby and industry.

[Retropin]

I hope every pinball company keeps pushing the envelope so when I buy my Sterns that I like, I will continue to get a great product.
Also, like Ford and Mercedes, I am a loyal customer who sticks with a brand.
I like the guys at Stern like Borgy and the King, Steve Ritchie. Sometimes buying a product is also about rewarding the people you have a lot of respect for. The customer service from Stern has always been outstanding.
I am sure JJP, Dutch Pinball or whoever will get the same loyal following when they look after their customers etc.

As times go past, hopefully the pinny world will have more NEW legends from some of these newer pinball companies.
That will be good for pinball. The more companies the better. This will drive competition, drop prices perhaps, and give the end consumer a better product. We all win.

One word of caution about highly engineered toys on games like that bowling alley on TBL, one always remembers a lot of pinball machines from the past with very intricate moving toys and the various mechanisms which failed over time.
Its good to have very complex toys, but it's no fun if they fail or break over time or need lots of servicing....

Sometimes safe and basic is literally hat, safe and basic maintainence.
Nothing worse than a pinball that's broken down. That bowling lane looks impressive, but it looks like its extremely complex. If it breaks down, it might be a nightmare to fix. I did say IF, cause it might also run fine forever, but history is against complex toys on pinballs staying 100 percent working.

Anyway, exciting times ahead. I wish I had a time machine to go 5 years ahead into the future to see the worldwide pinball industry. That would be exciting and a blast for those who are passionate about the pinball hobby and industry.

Im not sure how the bowling alley works yet. But I can tell you that my WMS Ten Strike remake looks like it would be complicated for the bowling pins but its actually really bloody simple.
Each pin has a magnet on the bottom and each place on the PF for them a small metal disc... this makes sure they rest to the correct positions and stay there. Each pin has a line to it from thin string and when the ball hits, it beaks the bond with the magnet and a tiny weight on the other end of the string pulls the pin up into the housing. When the pins reset a cam comes over from a stepping motor and pushes the weights back into position which then lowers the pins again. Really simple and effective... only part that can break down is the 12V stepping motor and weve had those in pinballs for many years now

[swinks]

here are some fun facts for TBL

http://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/films/50-things-you-(probably)-didnt-know-about-the-big-lebowski#

[Cow Corner]

Love the movie, prob my favourite of all time. The more you watch it the better it is.

So glad that someone had the guts to do this title instead of the same old same old.
It's a great move from DP to go out on a limb and do a cult classic. The machine itself looks fantastic, it's obvious that they had been well into design etc before the teaser reveal last year.
Dutch Pinball have done a brilliant job with this game, they have raised the bar and put Stern well and truly on notice to lift it's game.

Can't wait to get mine, "it will really tie the room together nicely!"

 

[Retropin]

Love the movie, prob my favourite of all time. The more you watch it the better it is.

So glad that someone had the guts to do this title instead of the same old same old.
It's a great move from DP to go out on a limb and do a cult classic. The machine itself looks fantastic, it's obvious that they had been well into design etc before the teaser reveal last year.
Dutch Pinball have done a brilliant job with this game, they have raised the bar and put Stern well and truly on notice to lift it's game.

Can't wait to get mine, "it will really tie the room together nicely!"

 

Have you signed up Daz???

[delarge]

Love the movie, prob my favourite of all time. The more you watch it the better it is.

So glad that someone had the guts to do this title instead of the same old same old.
It's a great move from DP to go out on a limb and do a cult classic. The machine itself looks fantastic, it's obvious that they had been well into design etc before the teaser reveal last year.
Dutch Pinball have done a brilliant job with this game, they have raised the bar and put Stern well and truly on notice to lift it's game.

Can't wait to get mine, "it will really tie the room together nicely!"

 

Have you signed up Daz???

Yeah, would be really handy if you have signed up and could outline how you're going to get it here.

You're right about the movie. Gets better with each viewing.

[Cow Corner]

Love the movie, prob my favourite of all time. The more you watch it the better it is.

So glad that someone had the guts to do this title instead of the same old same old.
It's a great move from DP to go out on a limb and do a cult classic. The machine itself looks fantastic, it's obvious that they had been well into design etc before the teaser reveal last year.
Dutch Pinball have done a brilliant job with this game, they have raised the bar and put Stern well and truly on notice to lift it's game.

Can't wait to get mine, "it will really tie the room together nicely!"

 

Have you signed up Daz???

Yeah, would be really handy if you have signed up and could outline how you're going to get it here.

You're right about the movie. Gets better with each viewing.

They are being sent in one large shipment next year to save costs.