pinball displays

[pinball god]

Went to a meet last night and most dmd's were colour or lcd and of course lcd monitor for the woz. From a spectator point of view they look great, but I'm more a player and would only look at a dmd as an onlooker if I was at a pub eating a meal or something. Even while playing a rarely look up except from end of ball bonus or start of ball current score (akin to having a 20 inch colour speedo in my car).
Anyway the plethora of discussion about pinballs now should have colour lcd's has got me thinking. Would pinheads really prefer manufacturers to supply these more expensive displays (and more resources dedicated to coding etc) or have more things on a playfield like a thingy that makes the ball go whiz etc?

I'm for a few interactive toys or mechs that add to the physical gameplay for my bucks than a screen I hardly look at.

Also what games probably justify a colour dmd or screen more so than others. Free flowing games like stern star trek I had no time to look, whereas monster bash had a lot more start stops. Btw I didn't look at woz screen during gameplay once.

[pinsanity]

The purpose of a display has completely evolved since the '90s.

It is no longer aimed solely at the person standing in front of the flippers in a dull red or orange, but to draw attention to other surrounding people with the use of full colour, preferably high resolution and large screen graphics and thus convince them to choose this machine to sink some coin into over its outdated neighbour.

Just about every piece of modern technology these days focuses on screen oriented (or at least is very heavily emphasised) tech.

Any company which doesn't embrace this philosophy is going to remain technically obsolescent.

Btw I didn't look at woz screen during gameplay once.

But I bet anyone standing around you in the vicinity did. Happens every time I have a meet when someone is playing WOZLE.

And as soon as the game ends one of those watchers then becomes a player by wanting to have a turn on the machine.

JJP nailed it in that regard.

[pinball god]

Totally agree, but now as a person who buys to play what would you prefer, screen and mechanics? I understand the ops need to lure people to play, but I'm also interested from the player's perspective. I actually do not know which way this will fall.

[robm]

I agree with Pinsanity.  I do tend to look at the DMD, after you play a few games, you know where to glance, and also for games that are new, they offer a lot of help for what to do in the modes.

I reckon the JJP idea is fantastic - once you know where to look, it can let you know how far along the game you are.

So from a players perspective, i think it is quite important to have colour as a minimum, followed by higher definition colour same size as the DMD, but ultimately i think the full (or most part) backglass as a screen is the go.

I always wonder if the blokes that were into pinball in the 70s debated about moving from reels to electronic displays, then the 80s alphanumeric, then in the 90s DMD and the relative merits of each one!

For people replacing DMDs, they are $330ish a pop - it is cheaper to actually get a RGB LED display, and with a bit of mucking around you can get a single colour (any colour), or basic 4 colours, or if you are really keen to colourise yourself, can get full colour. Look up pin2DMD on VPuniverse - a guy there developed a board.  I am mucking around with a few of them now.

[GORGAR 1]

And What a lineup it was yesterday Rob amazing hey :) like you I hardly look at the display, I would prefer that they put an extra toy on the PF and I really don't care if they left the red dots. If you want to upgrade buy a color DMD. The WOZ tv screen is a waste far to big. Even with others playing WOZ I never looked at the tv screen.

[pinball god]

And What a lineup it was yesterday Rob amazing hey :) like you I hardly look at the display, I would prefer that they put an extra toy on the PF and I really don't care if they left the red dots. If you want to upgrade buy a color DMD. The WOZ tv screen is a waste far to big. Even with others playing WOZ I never looked at the tv screen.

yes impressive line up. With all those lit inserts on woz, I didn't look at the screen either as a on looker. If I could have both aspects without effecting price too much, then ok else give me another gimmicky mech to increase the fun.

[pinsanity]

Totally agree, but now as a person who buys to play what would you prefer, screen and mechanics? I understand the ops need to lure people to play, but I'm also interested from the player's perspective. I actually do not know which way this will fall.

Does it have to be one or the other?

As robm alluded to with screen pricing, eventually any company who insist on holding onto old technology in their build will have their hand forced by economies of scale as the old tech eventually disappears from the market or becomes uneconomical to continue to manufacture from third parties due to limited demand they are left with no other choice but to upgrade. The Wells Gardner CRT monitors used in arcade machines springs to mind as a comparable analogy.

It doesn't matter how many plastic oversized bash toys you add to a machine, because without a colour display at minimum it will always look like a product manufactured in 1995.

And if you are trying to grow a market by attracting the next generation of new consumers rather than have it simply continue to exist in a steady state, then it needs to evolve lest it become the primary domain of a bunch of 40 something males.  

[Retropin]

 The DMD placement is all wrong IMO... Williams got it right with CV. It should be at the back of the PF so you can keep an eye on your score and play at the sametime. To me, CV is pretty much designed perfectly. The BG is there just to enhance the artwork of the whole machine and the DMD is player interactive due to its placement.
So why do we need a DMD?..Well we don't to be honest.. its real purpose is to display your score, the animations are a bonus but as most people seem to be saying they don't watch them then its really a waste of time and code etc. Video modes I find quite irritating... have never liked these.
The problem seems to lie in the fact that no one seems to know what to do with the backbox.... JJP made it into one huge screen which no one likes. Stern have stayed on the line of late 80's games and dared not try to alter the recipe.
Heighway have retained the backbox which inside houses nothing other than some cheap arse LED stick down strip...

Technology gets smaller but pinball machines get bigger... theres an awful lot of empty real estate inside a Stern backbox. SAM, the size of a mobile phone needs a lot of elbow room!

My take would be to do away with the backbox and have it shaped like a 30's pin where the backglass is the animated DMD/LCD screen. Its placement is right in front of game play so the player knows whats going on at all times.. perfect!

A modern pinball is a small box plonked on top of a large box. This came about to house the mechanics needed to run the machine.. those have gone, so no need for the large plinth.
A 30's pin was an all in one design that flowed.. the reason for its demise ive already explained. The reason doesn't exist anymore.

[GORGAR 1]

And What a lineup it was yesterday Rob amazing hey :) like you I hardly look at the display, I would prefer that they put an extra toy on the PF and I really don't care if they left the red dots. If you want to upgrade buy a color DMD. The WOZ tv screen is a waste far to big. Even with others playing WOZ I never looked at the tv screen.

yes impressive line up. With all those lit inserts on woz, I didn't look at the screen either as a on looker. If I could have both aspects without effecting price too much, then ok else give me another gimmicky mech to increase the fun.

Lol yeah those WOZ inserts are trippy lol must admit Dave had his WOZ setup nice it was faster than I expected. Give me color dots and more toys to hit and I'm happy plus new titles more often

[pinball god]

I'm only posing a hypothetical where it is one or the other. I totally agree with Gavin, put it where you see it with ease and maybe interactive. Lots of real estate on pinballs.

To be a smart ass about the next generation, design a pinball where you plunge the ball, and quickly look at the coin door to see how many tickets fly out. That's a winner for kids today. Or even better for the 20 somethings, is plunge the ball and quickly look at the backbox to take a Kardash selfie and post it on fb or instagram or whatever.

[pinsanity]

To be a smart ass about the next generation, design a pinball where you plunge the ball, and quickly look at the coin door to see how many tickets fly out. That's a winner for kids today. Or even better for the 20 somethings, is plunge the ball and quickly look at the backbox to take a Kardash selfie and post it on fb or instagram or whatever.

You might be shocked when you discover how many middle aged men in our hobby are actually more addicted to making inane facebook postings than any of the twenty somethings.  




As for pinball evolution, I'd be content with built in wifi connectivity in the short term.

The market leader at the time, B/W were promoting www.wms.com website on their displays all the way back in 1995 as the tech just didn't exist at the time to go beyond that.

20 years later and the current market leader hasn't taken it any further.


Code update 1.28 for KISS is now available. Do you wish to proceed? Press left flipper button for yes, right flipper button for no.

Now saving high scores and settings to cloud.

Connecting to sternpinball.com servers.......downloading

[pinball god]

To be a smart ass about the next generation, design a pinball where you plunge the ball, and quickly look at the coin door to see how many tickets fly out. That's a winner for kids today. Or even better for the 20 somethings, is plunge the ball and quickly look at the backbox to take a Kardash selfie and post it on fb or instagram or whatever.

You might be shocked when you discover how many middle aged men in our hobby are actually more addicted to making inane facebook postings than any of the twenty somethings.  




As for pinball evolution, I'd be content with built in wifi connectivity in the short term.

The market leader at the time, B/W were promoting www.wms.com website on their displays all the way back in 1995 as the tech just didn't exist at the time to go beyond that.

20 years later and the current market leader hasn't taken it any further.


Code update 1.28 for KISS is now available. Do you wish to proceed? Press left flipper button for yes, right flipper button for no.

Now saving high scores and settings to cloud.

Connecting to sternpinball.com servers.......downloading

yes that would be great and should be achievable. Wifi could enable tournaments between honest game owners.

[pinsanity]

To be a smart ass about the next generation, design a pinball where you plunge the ball, and quickly look at the coin door to see how many tickets fly out. That's a winner for kids today. Or even better for the 20 somethings, is plunge the ball and quickly look at the backbox to take a Kardash selfie and post it on fb or instagram or whatever.

You might be shocked when you discover how many middle aged men in our hobby are actually more addicted to making inane facebook postings than any of the twenty somethings.  




As for pinball evolution, I'd be content with built in wifi connectivity in the short term.

The market leader at the time, B/W were promoting www.wms.com website on their displays all the way back in 1995 as the tech just didn't exist at the time to go beyond that.

20 years later and the current market leader hasn't taken it any further.


Code update 1.28 for KISS is now available. Do you wish to proceed? Press left flipper button for yes, right flipper button for no.

Now saving high scores and settings to cloud.

Connecting to sternpinball.com servers.......downloading

yes that would be great and should be achievable. Wifi could enable tournaments between honest game owners.

One on one private match 2000kms apart. 

[Retropin]

To be a smart ass about the next generation, design a pinball where you plunge the ball, and quickly look at the coin door to see how many tickets fly out. That's a winner for kids today. Or even better for the 20 somethings, is plunge the ball and quickly look at the backbox to take a Kardash selfie and post it on fb or instagram or whatever.

You might be shocked when you discover how many middle aged men in our hobby are actually more addicted to making inane facebook postings than any of the twenty somethings.  




As for pinball evolution, I'd be content with built in wifi connectivity in the short term.

The market leader at the time, B/W were promoting www.wms.com website on their displays all the way back in 1995 as the tech just didn't exist at the time to go beyond that.

20 years later and the current market leader hasn't taken it any further.


Code update 1.28 for KISS is now available. Do you wish to proceed? Press left flipper button for yes, right flipper button for no.

Now saving high scores and settings to cloud.

Connecting to sternpinball.com servers.......downloading

yes that would be great and should be achievable. Wifi could enable tournaments between honest game owners.

One on one private match 2000kms apart. 

Definitely long overdue...

[oldskool1969]

Online tourneys are coming and very very soon if not already. Sure makes us WA boys ready to kick some other Aussie and international arses! We do have some good players here you know 

As far as displays, more colour, more fun and easier to distinguish the objectives in modern games.
Otherwise reels or backlit back glasses showing scores are just fine thank you