What's the future for the home market ?

[Strangeways]

A very open ended question.

The demand for restored machines has NEVER been this strong. The niche "High End" market has become more popular with collectors. I'm sure there are a heap of obvious reasons such as the availability of reproduction parts combined with the High End Collector only wanting High End games.

Collectors once used to being able to buy titles such as Addams Family, in reasonable reconditioned or restored condition for $6500+ are now in a position where the game they may have flipped 5 years ago, is not as commonly sourced AND the price has doubled. But it is still an Addams Family.

The NIB market spiked, and Stern did well from AC/DC onwards. With recent issues and price increases, pinheads default back to reconditioned Addams etc - but they are THE SAME PRICE as NIB Stern Premiums and LEs.

Collectors that cannot source that elusive Addams for 2010 prices, now look at CFTBL or Shadow - but BOTH these titles are pushing what Addams Familys were in 2010 ! No one wanted Junkyards, Shadows, Judge Dredds etc etc..
The younger generation (younger than me by 20 years in some cases  ) have the $ to spend on NIB or High End restorations - but when I mention the 2010 prices, they don't believe me !

But these days, the Whirlwinds and Funhouses are not as sought after. There has been a drop in SS and EMs - which is a bit of a shame.

As a collector and hobbyist foremost, and having my foot well and truly in the industry, I'm almost asking myself where this is all heading almost every day. When will the bubble burst ? Will it be in 20 years when we are too old and Addams Family will be flooding the market for $2000 ? Will it be in 12 months time ?

But FOR NOW, with decent stock well and truly difficult to source for reasonable pricing (for resale), have we yet to see the prices peak and the home market explode ?

[onetaste]

No question pinball will be dead 20-30 yrs from now unless a new generation gets into it. And right now I don't see enough young ones getting into it. That could suddenly change if they decide pinball is cool. But how do they get exposed to it? There are not many machines on location, not like the old days, and for a beginner it is horrendously expensive to learn on modern machines. $2 gone in 2 mins.

However, for the next 5-10 yrs I think prices will hold or go higher, at worst drop to prices 12 months ago. Competitive pinball is introducing a lot of new people to collecting. They want to own a machine so they can practice, and we all know what happens once you get one machine in the door :)

I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on yr high end Viking resto for me, Nino. I love my SS!

Greg

[oldskool1969]

What is old becomes new and new becomes old. EVERYTHING goes full circle.
I can only predict good things ahead for home entertainment and this includes pinball and arcades for the next 2-3 years at least. Everyone loves a mechanical marvel. Even tech heads.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Talking  to another seller during the week,eemand is for DMDs era, no demand for anything earlier

Visited 5 collectors over the last 12 months;
Dan, no DMDs, seems to like everything but pinball
collector 1, mostly new sterns and high end BW, one sys11
collector  2, BW DMD and 2 sterns
collector 3, BW DMD pin2000, 1 stern and one Bally SS
collector  4, one DMD, early SS and EMs


Who knows what the furure holds

[ddstoys]

Lol I still have a few Pete just prefer the exotic stuff no one has 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[goodolddays]

This also raises the question of when to sell before the big price crash .
I am sad to hear that there is not much love for SS and EM anymore .
I have never been in this hobby to make a lot of $$ but equally don't want to be giving my machines away down the track either.

Still .. in the 12 ish years I have been in the hobby I have seen a few ups and downs with prices for EM/SS

[baoyar]

I'm 28 so probably fit into the younger age bracket of collectors. Most of the guys I hang out with when playing pinball are 40+. I just worry that in 20 years there won't be enough people playing anymore. Part will be harder to get, competitive pinball will die, and who knows what will happen to prices.

I also worry about lost expertise. I have learned to repair most issues on my own and hope to be repairing other peoples machines in the future. But the best techs in this game aren't getting younger and I don't see enough younger guys getting into that side of the hobby.

[McKie1]

Might end up fewer pins in collections that are more expensive (either collector quality or stern/jjp pricing). If so, then perhaps secondary market might stabilise with a few more sold to fund $15k new/cq pins :(

P.S. cheers Pete for the kind collection remark ;)

[Retropin]

Most existing pins are in private collections already. They tend to stay there for a while and so market traffic decreases.
pimp this.. pimp that.. add LED's and chuck an extra grand on the value.. its all bollox because eventually, good condition, original machines will be the ultimate prize because most home/ dealers restorations are not up to par. We already see super thick clear coat.. restorers signing playfields as if in years to come they will somehow be respected for ultimately ruining a game. What's one mans restoration is another's abomination and once they reach the age of being classed as antiques, its originality/ patina etc that counts.
EM pinball prices are down but were stupid some 5 years back. EM arcade is now stupid money, DMD's and SS forever increasing.
When I see a $3500 RECEL game I really know the world has lost the plot.
But it turns like the tide due to demand for a particular era and so the 12-13K KISS's are no more.. the $15K Whitewaters are.. well.. laughable... $3.5K Zaccaria's. Its all nonsense and once ignored, settles down again.
The home market will exist for many many years.. I have at least another 30 in me I hope and I have no doubt that my line up will forever change as it has done for the last 20 or so. But by then, Stern CPU's will be obsolete and the games themselves probably unplayable. EM's though by then will be over 100 years old and still going strong.. only the basket cases get restored, the rest with scuffs, high scores scratched in the cabinet with a date from 1969, bit of flipper drag etc.. all firmly locked into the premium unobtainium market.

Gav

[pinball god]

Talking  to another seller during the week,eemand is for DMDs era, no demand for anything earlier

Visited 5 collectors over the last 12 months;
Dan, no DMDs, seems to like everything but pinball
collector 1, mostly new sterns and high end BW, one sys11
collector  2, BW DMD and 2 sterns
collector 3, BW DMD pin2000, 1 stern and one Bally SS
collector  4, one DMD, early SS and EMs


Who knows what the furure holds

add another stern to my collection Pete

[Cursed]

Talking  to another seller during the week,eemand is for DMDs era, no demand for anything earlier

Visited 5 collectors over the last 12 months;
Dan, no DMDs, seems to like everything but pinball
collector 1, mostly new sterns and high end BW, one sys11
collector  2, BW DMD and 2 sterns
collector 3, BW DMD pin2000, 1 stern and one Bally SS
collector  4, one DMD, early SS and EMs


Who knows what the furure holds

And I think you forgot my pin2000......

[Pop Bumper Pete]

yeah yeah, my point is that few people want EMs, solid state or even Sys11's
the majority want DMD era machines

and unless there is ongoing support from Stern, and JJP with boards, the LCD games will not have the same longevity

[Pop Bumper Pete]

and a question for Nino;
these highend collectors that you supply, are they after that one perfect game , or do they have a room full (more than 5) games?

[Strangeways]

and a question for Nino;
these highend collectors that you supply, are they after that one perfect game , or do they have a room full (more than 5) games?

Some collectors have a number of games but want one game - their Grail machine, done as a High End Restoration.
Some collectors buy dealer machines, find out that they are not up to standard, and then want them restored properly - as High end machines.
New collectors, especially younger guys, want an immediate click of the fingers High End machine to start off their collections.
Recently, there have been an increase in Ex Stern fanbois that would rather spend $13,000 on a robust, High End WPC era game (TAF, TZ, RFM..) than an incomplete and problematic NIB game.

In 2010, most of my customers wanted Fathom, Playboy, Genie, Pro football, KISS, Paragon.. Nowadays it is ST TNG, Shadow, CFTBL. Ironically, the late Greg Berry was the individual that pushed me to restore DMD era games alongside the EMs and SS that I loved doing. There has been a drop off in EMs. Most customers ask for Fireball, Captain Fantastic, Wizard, El Dorado - games that are hard to find and expensive.

Across the board, there is a bit of "buyer's panic" and they want the DMD machines like Addams Family as they know the prices are increasing to ridiculous prices and they WILL miss out if they wait too long. The SS and EMs are usually easier to find, and they are becoming cheaper to buy. If you are new to the hobby, and you love EMs - you would be arriving at the right time as your $ will buy you a good title.

[pinnies4me]

Across the board, there is a bit of "buyer's panic" and they want the ....

Feels an awful lot like today's housing market...let's hope neither end in bloodshed....