Gottlieb Sys 1 tilt working intermittently

[onetaste]

It needs a really big shake to register, ie bang around 5-10 times. I have cleaned the bob, ring and drilled a new hole for the top part but no luck. I am using the pascal all in 1 brd with no other problems.

My next thoughts are solder a wire across the top part or somehow put a capacitor in the circuit but not sure how to go about it. Anyone else have any ideas or comments?

[Strangeways]

You could try re seating the connector in the photo. Are there any other switches causing issues ? The 1N914 diodes are notorious for causing issues. There will be a small PCB with these diodes on the transformer panel. If there are any other switches playing up in that row or column - that's where I would start looking.

[onetaste]

Thanks, Nino, I will check the diode. The game is fully restored (by evan and me) and plays flawlessly apart from the tilt. It’s a Sinbad, one of my top 3 games of all time for any era. Genius design.

[defender 1980]

You can’t miss that orange inside the cab as a Sinbad. I have pascal in mine too, and the tilt doesn’t work either, so will be happy to follow your adventure. The chimes in mine were stolen by Danny putt when it was being repaired for its former owner, so it runs off a speaker. All mechs seem to be ok, but still no tilt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[onetaste]

You could try re seating the connector in the photo. Are there any other switches causing issues ? The 1N914 diodes are notorious for causing issues. There will be a small PCB with these diodes on the transformer panel. If there are any other switches playing up in that row or column - that's where I would start looking.

I reseated the plug. It doesn’t look like this switch is on that panel or in the switch matrix, the schematics don’t show any diode on Tilt Sw (04)

[onetaste]

You can’t miss that orange inside the cab as a Sinbad. I have pascal in mine too, and the tilt doesn’t work either, so will be happy to follow your adventure.

Very interesting. Can we get around this problem with a capacitor? The switch works, just gotta hold the tilt bob against the ring or shove the machine hard so the plumb bob hits the ring 5 or more times.

I’ll email pascal and ask him if this is a known issue.

[Strangeways]

Did you repin the connectors to the new Pascal board ?

Is the ball roll assy wired correctly ?

[onetaste]

Did you repin the connectors to the new Pascal board ?

Is the ball roll assy wired correctly ?

Yes, everything repinned at the board. Ball roll assembly ok.

I have spoken to Pascal, there is a diode which I missed, here is what he says:

there are two TILT assys: one under the playfield and one in the cabinet.

each has its own diode.

the diodes for the TILT pendulum & coin door are shown on the transformers schematics page = the page before the one you showed me:


for the coils, 1N4004 are fine (NOT 1N4148, too weak !) for the switch matrix, both diodes must not be used.

it’s a matter of voltage threshold. the original 1N270 germanium diode has a threshold of 0.3V while the 2 diodes you mentionned have a threshold of 0.7V. If you install these switch hits may not register.

any faulty switch matrix diode must be replaced by a schottky diode, like BAT42 BAT43 BAT85. This is true on the original board and my board.

[Strangeways]

I have used 1N4148 in the switch matrix in many restorations. The last three system 1's (Genie X 2 and Sinbad) had ALL the switch matrix capacitors changed to 1N4148. They all used Pascal boards. No issues ever reported. The Germanium 1N914 will fail eventually. The 1N4148 are fast switching diodes - perfect replacements.

[onetaste]

I have heaps of the 1N4148 sitting at home, however Pascal doesn’t like them because they have a threshold voltage of 0.7V and may cause problems with switches not registering, whereas the ones he is suggesting have a threshold voltage of 0.3V ie more sensitive.

I suspect if everything is repinned the voltage is strong enough not to have a problem.

[Strangeways]

I have heaps of the 1N4148 sitting at home, however Pascal doesn’t like them because they have a threshold voltage of 0.7V and may cause problems with switches not registering, whereas the ones he is suggesting have a threshold voltage of 0.3V ie more sensitive.

I suspect if everything is repinned the voltage is strong enough not to have a problem.

Even though 1N4148 have worked for me in the past - Pascal may have changed his design to suit the schottky diode method, so I'd probably follow his recommendation. He knows the GTB board set inside out.

[Retropin]

Its all about the voltage value on the other side of the diode once current passes through.
1N4148 have a voltage drop of 1V which is quite high... Schottky have a much lower forward voltage which means they dissipate less power and will work faster.
Im surprised the Pascal board is that sensitive though I must admit..

[onetaste]

He said he recommends this for the original boards too

[onetaste]

I have used 1N4148 in the switch matrix in many restorations. The last three system 1's (Genie X 2 and Sinbad) had ALL the switch matrix capacitors changed to 1N4148. They all used Pascal boards. No issues ever reported. The Germanium 1N914 will fail eventually. The 1N4148 are fast switching diodes - perfect replacements.

Did you repin the connectors to the new Pascal board ?

Is the ball roll assy wired correctly ?

Yes, everything repinned at the board. Ball roll assembly ok.

I have spoken to Pascal, there is a diode which I missed, here is what he says:

there are two TILT assys: one under the playfield and one in the cabinet.

each has its own diode.

the diodes for the TILT pendulum & coin door are shown on the transformers schematics page = the page before the one you showed me:


for the coils, 1N4004 are fine (NOT 1N4148, too weak !) for the switch matrix, both diodes must not be used.

it’s a matter of voltage threshold. the original 1N270 germanium diode has a threshold of 0.3V while the 2 diodes you mentionned have a threshold of 0.7V. If you install these switch hits may not register.

any faulty switch matrix diode must be replaced by a schottky diode, like BAT42 BAT43 BAT85. This is true on the original board and my board.

I have finally gotten around to trying to fix this problem. Contrary to the Sinbad circuit diagram, the tilt pendulum wire (pur-wh) does does not go through the diode assembly in the cabinet, it goes straight back to the headbox. There have only ever been 4, not 5, diodes on this assembly since factory. I tried putting a diode in line but this did not make any difference.

My latest thinking is I'll put a capacitor in series with the tilt pendulum. Any further advice?

Cheers, Greg

[onetaste]

I have used 1N4148 in the switch matrix in many restorations. The last three system 1's (Genie X 2 and Sinbad) had ALL the switch matrix capacitors changed to 1N4148. They all used Pascal boards. No issues ever reported. The Germanium 1N914 will fail eventually. The 1N4148 are fast switching diodes - perfect replacements.

Did you repin the connectors to the new Pascal board ?

Is the ball roll assy wired correctly ?

Yes, everything repinned at the board. Ball roll assembly ok.

I have spoken to Pascal, there is a diode which I missed, here is what he says:

there are two TILT assys: one under the playfield and one in the cabinet.

each has its own diode.

the diodes for the TILT pendulum & coin door are shown on the transformers schematics page = the page before the one you showed me:


for the coils, 1N4004 are fine (NOT 1N4148, too weak !) for the switch matrix, both diodes must not be used.

it’s a matter of voltage threshold. the original 1N270 germanium diode has a threshold of 0.3V while the 2 diodes you mentionned have a threshold of 0.7V. If you install these switch hits may not register.

any faulty switch matrix diode must be replaced by a schottky diode, like BAT42 BAT43 BAT85. This is true on the original board and my board.

I have finally gotten around to trying to fix this problem. Contrary to the Sinbad circuit diagram, the tilt pendulum wire (pur-wh) does does not go through the diode assembly in the cabinet, it goes straight back to the headbox. There have only ever been 4, not 5, diodes on this assembly since factory. I tried putting a diode in line but this did not make any difference.

My latest thinking is I'll put a capacitor in series with the tilt pendulum. Any tips?

Cheers, Greg