Power Probelms

[bossninja17]

So, the power at my place has been going on and off for months. Something has been earthing and throwing the safety switch. I've checked everything. The fridge was repaired a few months back - it had been earthing out and was the original cause. With it fiexed, all was OK for a while. But, mysteriously, the safety switch gets triggered - about once a day, sometimes longer but at no particular time. Inquiries tell me it could be the fridge going off again, so I replace it. All OK for 24 hours, then I wake up at 3am to find the power is off again. After checkng every electrical item in the house, no luck.
On Saturday I was out in the garage and noticed the little 50litre electric hot water system we have in there. Yep, water dripping from the electrics. Do a patch up job, thinking I've fixed it. Sunday at 6.30am, power out again. I go out into the garage and a few drips coming from the hot water tank. I think I have at last found the problem. So off to Hardware & General on Tuesday to get a new hot water system (Rheemglas 191050). Just under $500 according to my research. Before i do, can anyone think of anything elese that might be tripping the safety switch??

[ajlaird]

In my experience, having a trailer-load of computers and monitors on the one circuit can throw a safety switch, but I am doubting this is your problem...

[Chad]

best way to prove the hot water system is the cause of your problem is to turn off the circuit breaker for the unit and leave it off for a couple of days & see if the safty switch triggers off again.  Just make sure that there is no fridge or freezer connected to the same circuit breaker before turning it off.

[Strangeways]

I had a similar problem with the power supply. Turned out to be a faulty safety switch on one of my kambrook power boards. As Andrew was suggesting - it was the power board to my PC.

If you call out a sparkie - he might be able to point you in the right direction by isolating the circuit causing the problem.

[Marty Machine]

hehehehehe it's always something that you NEVER think of......

If you have any "sensor-lights" around the house (front porch/front lawn-floolight etc etc) try and disconnect them to prove if the breaker still triggers or not.....

I've been through a run of sensor-lights with this problem, both at my house, and at friends houses....
hope it helps.

MM.

[faza]

I think you are on the right track if it is tripping in the middle of the night it most probably isnt a appliance i would be concentrating on fridge freezers and hot water heaters anything that is operating when the tripping occurs .
How old is the wiring in the house if its old the fault could be in the wiring, an electrician would need to check for earth faults.
I have also come across power points that have had the earth neutral on power ponts reversed by kitchen installers this works until earth leakage is installed and even then doesnt trip unless the appliance is used.
If you can live without the small hot water heater for a while turn it off as previously suggested .

[deadlydave]

Going back a few years the saftey switch (RCD), was usually only placed on GPO power circuits, if this is the case at your house, then should not be your HWS or lighting. Usual suspect is a fridge/freezer as you know, next in line in my experience are GPO's with moisture getting in, any outdoor power points? Also have found power points on the internal walls of houses with 'moist crud' sitting on top of terminals - any power points under a window? Intermittent tripping like yours is the hard to track down without an Insulation Tester, you may have to call a sparkie.

Cheers
Dave 

[beaky]

I agree with leaving the hot water system off for a few days.

My mother in law had a earth leakage trip problem a few years ago. turned out to be an ants next on the back of a power point. all would be well for a couple of days until they would rebuild their nest then the voltage would pop the nest and trip the RCD, then all would be well again for a few days, this wnt on for a month or so until i found the problem and removed the ants nest and replaced the power point.

so as you can see it could be anything causing it but in your case i would think the hot water system if it is on the same circuit as the power points.

[oldpins]

I have a power board with earth leakage, and is sometimes tripped by switching off any ceiling fan control in the house. It has never tripped the earth leakage unit on the main board though.

[elkor-alish]

Your hot water system won't be protected by an RCD and so will not trip all your power.
The element in your hot water system is hydroscopic which means it absorbs water and already has to much earth leakage for an RCD to work.
Take it from a Sparky (me) don't buy a new hot water system!
Use the money instead to pay a Sparky to diagnose the problem for you.
Don't mess with 240V kids, you'll get burned, hip pocket or hand.

[faza]

Your hot water system won't be protected by an RCD and so will not trip all your power.
The element in your hot water system is hydroscopic which means it absorbs water and already has to much earth leakage for an RCD to work.
Take it from a Sparky (me) don't buy a new hot water system!
Use the money instead to pay a Sparky to diagnose the problem for you.
Don't mess with 240V kids, you'll get burned, hip pocket or hand.

I would agree that the hot water shouldnt be on earth leakage but it sounds like he has one earth leakage breaker for the entire board makes it hard to diagnose

[FirePower]

All reasonable advice from others below I reckon, and the best is undoubtably  not to stuff around with it it you don't really know what you are doing - and having to ask the question suggests to me you don't really.

A couple of thoughts that might help to safely narrow down where the problem lies;
- the fact that it's tripping so regularly should make finding it fairly quick and easy.
- isolate each circuit by turning off individual breakers to the power circuits until the circuit that has the fault or faulty device is found. When circuit with fault indentified then remove plugged in devices to isolate which is faulty, if it is a faulty device and not the wiring.
- you can buy little gpo (powerpoint) testers that have three ligths on them and you plug them in and turn on - different lights will indicate a wiring fault at the power point
- in NSW (don't know about other regions) light circuits are not normally put through an earth leakage breaker
- electric water heater are not normally put on earth leakage either and depending on age of installtion it was typical to not put fridge circuits on, nowadays it is more typical to put fridge on
- it could also be a faulty eath leakage breaker - the test button circuit does actually set up an earth leakage
- an electrician will quickly and easily sort this and can do an insulation resistance test on the whole house

All up get the sparky in to check and provide peace of mind - crazy not to.

[bossninja17]

Thanks everyone - much appreciated!
I have booked the sparky to come on Thursday - will let you know what he finds. Will it be an ants nest, moisture near a powerpoint, the fridge??? It's amazing what can happen. I posted this thread out of frustration and didn't expect to get such interesting and valuable advice. Again, I appreciate everyone's assistance.

[bossninja17]

BTW, I mentioned that I checked online to get a price on a Rheem 50 litre mains pressure electric hot water system - most sites quoting $450 - $480.
I called into Hardware & General this morning - $365!!! Moral of the story - sites called "cheaper hotwater" or "discount hotwater" are not necessarily so.
Anyway, until the sparky checks the house on Thursday, I wont purchase a new hotwater tank until I know that it is really the problem.

[Caveoftreasures]

I liked Elkor Alish's quote " Dont play with 240 volts kids, it will hurt your pocket or hand " etc.

I cracked up, cause its so bloody true. Electricity, the silent killer.

I put an alarm system into a electricians house. He had been a sparky for 40 years. He said "electricity is like your x-wife and your wallet, once it gets hold of ya, it will never let ya go til the day you die". So very true.

I am betting its not the hot water system. I am looking forward to hearing what the culprit is.