how many sales till you a professional / commercial seller

[johnwartjr]

I'd drop the term 'professional', and instead concentrate on commercial.

Professional can indicate that it is of someone's profession - meaning how they make their living, or it can simply mean that someone is an expert on the topic. You can be an expert, but not make your living on something, as it may be a hobby for you, or a former profession.

Example: I decide to close my business tomorrow, but I keep some pins around. After a period of time, I decide to sell one of my machines because my wife wants a nice lamp or vase in the gameroom, and the only way to make room is to get rid of the game I no longer play. The work on the game may be 'professional', the work I do on it to get it ready for sale is 'professional', but I am not a commercial seller. I'm just a guy selling a pin who knows a lot about the subject.

And the opposite way to look into it. Let's say my business slows, and I only sell 1 game a year. I'm still commercial, as I am still running a business. I'm just not doing much with the business!

A commercial seller is someone who runs a business. Someone who collects and pays taxes.

There are commercial sellers of any good with zero skills, and there are commercial sellers of that good with amazing skills.
There are hobbyist sellers of any good with zero skills, and there are hobbyist sellers of that good with amazing skills.

I would say people should self-police themselves. If there is a need for a commercial vs private designation on this site, the people running a commercial entity should put their stuff in their section.

[necroscope]

Probably the only authority that could answer that question is the australian taxation office,i guess at tax time they decide if 1+ container  makes you a commercial seller or 5+ pins makes you a commercial seller,but when it comes to the ATO i guess it will be whatever suits them.They are going through ebay at the moment and according to them any sales over $20,000 a year they are looking at so i guess thats the answer to how many sales till your a commercial seller? $20,000 worth.

[markc]

anyone who sells more than 20k on ebay is a power seller

ebay sent all records to the tax office a few years ago ,
they did this approx 3 years ago i think , and now they sending all records again from last 3 years
they do catch allot of people out this way I am guessing
who dont either have a company or dont declare the sales , can see a few getting hit with back GST payments too


so really anyone who brings in a container is a commercial , is that people are thinking ?
if you bring them in to re sell ,  mind you i bring in some personal pins in my containers too '
like my pinball magic , Big Bang Bar  and so on

[johnwartjr]

In the US, eBay and PayPal are going to start reporting to the IRS in January of 2012 for 2011 sales. To be reported in the states, you have to have *both* more than 200 sales and 20k in total sales - so you could sell 199 items for 20k+, or 200+ items for under 20k, and not get reported.

Lots of people are up in arms about this, saying how it's not fair etc. What's not fair is the guys selling that quantity of stuff and not reporting, while those of us who sell legitimately and claim the income get taxed!

They also mistakenly think they will be taxed on 20k if they sell 20k. Should realize that 20k sales is not 20k profit. But, I could complain about that all day long and it wouldn't make a difference :)

[markc]

In the US, eBay and PayPal are going to start reporting to the IRS in January of 2012 for 2011 sales. To be reported in the states, you have to have *both* more than 200 sales and 20k in total sales - so you could sell 199 items for 20k+, or 200+ items for under 20k, and not get reported.

Lots of people are up in arms about this, saying how it's not fair etc. What's not fair is the guys selling that quantity of stuff and not reporting, while those of us who sell legitimately and claim the income get taxed!

They also mistakenly think they will be taxed on 20k if they sell 20k. Should realize that 20k sales is not 20k profit. But, I could complain about that all day long and it wouldn't make a difference :)

at the end of the day its all about the taxes..... we all want to pay as less as we can 
but these that don't report will get caught in the end ,
the amusement industry here , is well known for so much cash and the GST police keep a very close eye on this
we have been investigated , only last year and all was fine but I am sure there are others that don't report  anything at all
they do match up paperwork i can tell you that , keep your container records and ebay sales and site sales
dont forget customs and the tax office match up import records to your sales records to work out profit
so keep all your paperwork

we have every transaction from our web sites and ebay sales recorded

mark

[shansta]

A commercial seller would be someone who can find the parts in his warehouse.... 
(Sorry boss - couldn't resist, wheres that RH PZ ramp?)

Anyone bringing a container?

Nino did it last(?) year - even sold a few machines out of the container.

I don't think anyone on here would consider Nino commercial? (Especially given the way he went about it - we all know the motivation was NOT profit)


There are other guys around bringing in a few containers a year - and not with the intention of keeping half the machines either.

These are the blokes the OP is aimed at. (and yes - if you buy in bulk with intentions to re-sell, you are commercial in ANY industry)



NB: I singled Mark and Nino out because I know them - comments apply to anybody in the same boat BTW.

[wonder]

I'm a commercial buyer of pinball just haven't had a chance to sell any.

[Strangeways]

A commercial seller would be someone who can find the parts in his warehouse.... 
(Sorry boss - couldn't resist, wheres that RH PZ ramp?)

Anyone bringing a container?

Nino did it last(?) year - even sold a few machines out of the container.

I don't think anyone on here would consider Nino commercial? (Especially given the way he went about it - we all know the motivation was NOT profit)


There are other guys around bringing in a few containers a year - and not with the intention of keeping half the machines either.

These are the blokes the OP is aimed at. (and yes - if you buy in bulk with intentions to re-sell, you are commercial in ANY industry)



NB: I singled Mark and Nino out because I know them - comments apply to anybody in the same boat BTW.

Great post Shansta - You are right - I brought in a container last year as a hobbyist and collector. Some people I know drive $60,000 - $80,000 cars, I bought a container and kept my EL wagon  . I don't own a swimming pool or tennis court !

I've sold three fully restored (and documented here)  machines, to members here on AP. I brought in two machines for Gavin (Rally Comics and Bally Star Trek). Some games are set up in my gamesroom (as is working). My motivation is to have a constant restoration queue and at the end of it, have a gamesroom (or basement) full of EMs and SS machines. I've got 20 years to sit on these machine and enjoy every singe restoration. In that time, the $60,000 car won't be worth $60,000 any more and my machines will still be there, played and enjoyed by my children. I will sell some of them - to fund more project machines etc.. But they will be restored.

I personally encourage people to bring in containers, but keep in mind that Dealers do this for a living, so if the motivation is to make a profit - It will not be easy to compete with established Businesses. In fact, it will be almost impossible unless you have a building to store and repair the games, staff to recondition the machines, a salesroom, after sales support - the list goes on.

An importer of containers is not necessarily a Commercial Seller, a dealer or a hobbyist. My Father was an operator who was bringing in containers before most of us here were born. No such thing as a dealer in the 50's and 60's !

[markc]

A commercial seller would be someone who can find the parts in his warehouse.... 
(Sorry boss - couldn't resist, wheres that RH PZ ramp?)

Anyone bringing a container?

Nino did it last(?) year - even sold a few machines out of the container.

I don't think anyone on here would consider Nino commercial? (Especially given the way he went about it - we all know the motivation was NOT profit)


There are other guys around bringing in a few containers a year - and not with the intention of keeping half the machines either.

These are the blokes the OP is aimed at. (and yes - if you buy in bulk with intentions to re-sell, you are commercial in ANY industry)



NB: I singled Mark and Nino out because I know them - comments apply to anybody in the same boat BTW.

thanks mate

now go back under the rock you have been hiding under

how ya been ?  long time ?


and yes I agree anyone who brings a container in to sell is a dealer/ commercial
dont forget once you hit 70k  , you must pay GST on that ....
'but also get to claim back the GST you have paid too

 

[shansta]

thanks mate

now go back under the rock you have been hiding under

how ya been ?  long time ?

Hey Mark...

Too bloody busy! New daughter, new car... No money to blow on pinnys... (did manage to score an empty arcade cab though)

And it's been too friggin cold to contemplate going anywhere near Bayswater.... 

How about you? Finished buying up the known universe yet? 

[markc]

thanks mate

now go back under the rock you have been hiding under

how ya been ?  long time ?

Hey Mark...

Too bloody busy! New daughter, new car... No money to blow on pinnys... (did manage to score an empty arcade cab though)

And it's been too friggin cold to contemplate going anywhere near Bayswater.... 

How about you? Finished buying up the known universe yet? 

well done mate

and I understand

and nah we havent really brought anything else yet ....
but as a commercial dealer we have brought a new factory .....
and a few hundred more pins ....

[shansta]

and nah we havent really brought anything else yet ....
but as a commercial dealer we have brought a new factory .....
and a few hundred more pins ....

Oh, is that all... 

Any projects? 

Joking - I need to fix that sys 80 POS, I'm sick of looking at it!

[shansta]

I bought a container and kept my EL wagon  . I don't own a swimming pool or tennis court !

Just had visions of Nino polishing the bottom of the pool with Novus, and then hitting the tennis net fittings with Ranex...