Bally Rockmakers issues

[Bennyfactor]

Hi all,
I'm the proud owner of a Bally Rockmakers pinball from 1968 (German version)

I bought it knowing that there were a couple of (hopefully) minor issues that needed attention
I've been doing a lot of reading (pinrepair.com & pinballninja) and was hoping I could get some ideas for things to check to fix these issues

I have 2 problems right now
First: when I power up the machine and start a game (press start button) the lights in the backbox don't come on until I press the left flipper button
when the flipper button is pressed the backbox lights up and the tilt trips
so i open the hood and start engaging the relay units until the tilt turns off and then i can play

Second: once i can start and play a game, when the ball hits the pop bumpers the score fails to move and a coil locks on
nothing else will score and the coil stays on until the ball drains
once the ball drains the coil turns off but neither the player nor the ball advances

the most annoying thing is that it worked fine at the guy's place when i tested it out before i bought it, and when i got it home (sunday) i set it up and had a few games with my wife and brother in law and it worked fine then too... but last night when i fired it up i had the above issues :(

any ideas for what i should check?

i haven't got a schematic yet, but i'm setting up an account with pbresource to order one

[wonder]

Start with the basic Ben,check all you plugs,pull them off and on to reset them.

Pulled a few boards apart for no reason,only to find a it had a bad connection.

[ddstoys]

Hi I'm not real familiar with the old Bally but some old machines need the left flipper to be pushed to power up te game so if you push the left flipper before pushing start what happens?    Also check you have credits on the credit wheel.  I've missed that a few times lol

[Bennyfactor]

when i plug it in the playfield lights up
when i press the left flipper the backbox lights up
4 players are lit, player 1 current player is lit, 'balls in play' shows 1, "tilt" is lit and the start button and flippers do nothing
there are heaps of credits on the wheel, so it's not that

[goodolddays]

Sounds to me like one of the tilt switches is closed , which is why the game is in TILT. There are usually at least 2 or 3 tilt switches.
One will be on the bottom of the playfield somewhere, one will be on the playboard (the board in the bottom of the cabinet with the score motor etc)

Find these and check to make sure they are open , also check the slam tilt switch on the coin door (if there is one) ..

You will find EM's are not that hard once you get used to them .. usually problem will be a switch out of adjustment , or a wire has come loose .

I have found the best thing to do when you get an EM is give it a complete mechanical overhaul , but can appreciate you probably aren't ready to start pulling apart your only Pinnie just yet.

Good luck with it and have fun

Cheers
Dave

[ddstoys]

 Cool I'd try daves  advice about checking the tilt switches.   If it was working when you bought it should only be something simple that's knocked out of alignment in the move.   

    Keep us posted on your progress

[goodolddays]

Another suggestion , re the "pop bumper hit and coil stays on" .. this is most likely a switch out of adjustment (closed when it should be open , or vice versa) .. also check that when the game is in play and the score motor runs, that it always returns to the home position (ie turns full 360 degrees before stopping) .. i have been stupidly caught out by this before. If score motor doesn't return to home position then the score motor "home position" switch is either dirty or out of adjustment.

[Strangeways]

The problems started once the machine was moved. Fairly typical problem.

As others have mentioned, refit the jones plugs as a start.

Check the tilt assembly on the front right hand side of the cabinet. There should be a tilt ball and sometimes it can be lodged all the way towards the back of it's assembly. This will tilt the game. Also check the tilt plomb. You can remove the plomb itself until the game is working.

Bumper problem - Going from memory, there are two switches activated when the ball hits the bumper skirt. One fires the coil, the other (end of stroke) completes the circuit to the chimes (or bell) AND the score reel via a relay. This second (EOS) switch may need to be gapped.

[Bennyfactor]

so i thought I'd start by trying to fix the tilt issue
one of the NC switches on the tilt switch relay was all bent and was staying closed the whole time, so I adjusted that
didn't change the problem of the tilt being on at startup...

now i have no lights working on my playfield though?!?!
I tried reseating the main connectors with no difference

*sigh*

I couldn't find a tilt ball either? just the dangly thing on the left of the door
here are a couple of pics, maybe I'm missing something obvious
I'm ordering a schematic and manual for this machine as we speak

[Bennyfactor]

well the playfield light issue is a loose wire i think 
i checked all the fuses and they were all fine and every now and then the playfield lights come back on for a few seconds

while i wait for my schematics to arrive i'm exploring the inner working of my new toy and working out what different things do
i guess i didn't really think about how having all the labels in german would make my life more difficult   

[Redback]

Google translate is helpful

http://translate.google.com.au/?hl=en&tab=wT#it|en|

Regs,

Red

[Retropin]

Bennyfactor,

With an EM youve got to start thinking slightly differently. You can ONLY have a switch that is either NOT making or IS making, be it through non working coils or misaligned switches/ contacts. These are the only faults youll find.

Now i havent worked on a BALLY EM ever, so im going to go in blind for you here.

GI lights are ALWAYS on one of the HOLDING coils... there will be 1 leaf switch that controls these...
It may well be that on BALLY games this holding relay is actually the TILT relay.. you can find this switch by going through them with a meter and finding those that have 6v across them.. one of these is not closed... try on the TILT relay first - you may well have misaligned one to get another aligned.
 To have them come on for a short space of time then go off suggests to me that as relay pulls in this switch makes contact very slightly, then it goes open.

As suggested above... go to translation sites and decode the relays - especially the HOLD relay, youll get some cranky translations as its word specific.
 I have a RALLY game that has German schematics and managed to get her going via the translation sites.

Machine worked when you looked at it... it got moved and now it has faults... go find those relays my man


Just to add... the HOLDING coils are those that as soon as machine is turned on pull in and stay pulled in... so open her up and find the relay that is always on... your GI lights will be on this relay

[oldpins]

I totally understand the problems you are having. As Retropin pointed out you do need to check all relay contacts. When finding faults a trick I use is to view inside the machine or BB in low light, which enables you to visually see a spark where contacts are making. This then points you in the direction of the relay / contact performing a certain task.
GT

[Strangeways]

"Check the tilt assembly on the front right hand side of the cabinet. There should be a tilt ball and sometimes it can be lodged all the way towards the back of it's assembly. This will tilt the game. Also check the tilt plomb. You can remove the plomb itself until the game is working"

Those assemblies are on the right hand side (in your picture). There's no ball in the tilt assy - so the switch should not be shorting. The way it works is that whan the front of the machine is lifted, the ball runs along the track and trips a switch. This tilts the game. The plomb looks fine.

There maybe another tilt switch in the baseboard or under the playfield.

I have a feeling that the bumper issue will be a relay. To find out which one, activate the bumper and watch which relay activates. As others have suggested - Dim the lights and look for the spark, or translate "bumper" into German and reference that with the realy.

[shansta]

There is a "slam tilt" type switch on the front right of the score motor board. (The big leaf switch with the round weight on the end)

Can't see one on the coin door.

Should be an identical one under the playfield somewhere? Is there another one in the backbox?


Question: What is the #44 light in front of the score motor? (Mounted on score motor board) Power light?