Wizard Of OZ Pinball

[Sunfox]

I hope there were a lot of female purchasers   anyway thanks for explaining some if not all the problems faced. It is a tough task. Maybe regular bulletins of problems faced might have been useful. I don't know if explaining things like this in the pinball industry is bad for business????

Delays happen.  Normally you build or manufacture something that has a few dozen maybe even a few hundred parts.  Not a game with thousands.   That just compounds the issue :).  Multiple suppliers. Each part needed for the next mech to be built.  One slows down, holds everything else up.   Now that everything is in place, proper suppliers for each part, smooth sailing on that front from here on out.

So why were we lied to about delivery dates and why are some buyers getting there games before people who ordered first?

I'll be the first to admit - I'm not happy about the delays. I don't believe Jack is PURPOSEFULLY lying about delivery dates (what purpose would that serve after getting so many wrong), but he certainly hasn't figured out the knack of estimating (and multiplying whatever date he thinks up by ten). And I have personal experience there. I'm at the point where it's taking so long I can't do anything but laugh at the ludicrousness of it all. But I want my game more than I care about the delays, and cancelling would only extend the torment of waiting even longer.

Also, I'm not sure you answered this - when did you order? I know distributors weren't announced for quite some time, but I'm sure the principals at Bumper ordered quite early in the process. Also, we don't know what kind of distributor agreements Jack is working under. He might be contractually obligated to provide a certain number of machines a certain amount of time after production startup, and I don't think production's ramped up anywhere near as quickly as Jack wanted.

[ddstoys]

Hahaha just ship us some games lol.

[pinball god]

Wow this thread turned to shit fast.  
  I get it takes time to build a new game I get it takes time to troubleshoot game.

  I just think the bullshit deadlines and request for full payments are the main issue.   I know if I was a WOz customer I'd much rather hear that there are issues being sorted out sorry for the delays instead of promised deadlines not met one after another.

 Good luck with the manufacturing looking forward to seeing a finished product  

I think its getting back on track again. Some good news from this is maybe the hobbit will be a go and with little delivery issues as they now have the suppliers down pat, hardware/software sorted and experience in production and PR under their belt. Unfortunately like all that buy early in a product like tech stuff will nearly always get a product no where near as good as say gen 4 or 5. Even cars are the same. Series 3 is always heaps better and has all the bells and whistles. The hobbit is the one to watch if jjp is to stay I think

[Retropin]

I think its getting back on track again. Some good news from this is maybe the hobbit will be a go and with little delivery issues as they now have the suppliers down pat,

That could well be true... problem is that very few now believe anything Jack says

[Pop Bumper Pete]

That could well be true... problem is that very few now believe anything Jack says

Yep

Make that December 2012
March 2013
End of April
Building them now, shipping in 2 weeks (air)
Building them now, shipping in 2 weeks  (air)
Building them now, expect to ship in a week (not doing air, via sea)
We think we might have sent some, but not yours. We might be sending more in 2 weeks, but we are not certain

All these dates were from e-mail communications directly with Jack

I ordered in the first week
No distributors were announced until about May 11 (?)
Were any standards ordered in that first week

Jack stated many times, 'first to pay, first to play', I finished making payments in 2011

If any standard versions were ordered before I placed my order, and/or Jack signed up any distributors in the first week, then I will unreservedly apologize to him

[Strangeways]

Personal attacks on me by yourself and a JJP employee here and on other sites are neither warranted nor professional.

It would be much better if Pinchroma or better still, Jack himself came clean and actually told people what the problems are with production - that would stop all of the guesses and then we would know the facts.

Until then, I stick by my theory that it is the PC side of things slowing production down.

You say 25secs for the machine to boot - Pinchroma says less - an owner told me 3 mins??? Who do we believe based on events so far? I go with the owner myself.

I don't really care and I didn't bother looking at the video - it would be better to have a bit of honesty and transparency with this project, after all it is the customers who have financed it.

Here's the problem: as a competitor, going around on Pinside, Aussie Arcade and now here as the supposed expert on everything wrong with the WOZ hardware platform while evidently not knowing the first thing about the system, is not professional. Then, whenever it's either pointed out that what you're saying isn't supported by verifiable facts, or whenever someone requests you back up your claims with facts of your own, you get defensive, blame everyone but yourself ("someone else told me"), refuse to provide any supporting evidence, then usually disappear only to pop up in some other place with the same claims.

I believe this quote warrants repeating and perfectly expresses our frustration with Mike's method of operation:

You say 25secs for the machine to boot - Pinchroma says less - an owner told me 3 mins??? Who do we believe based on events so far? I go with the owner myself. ... I don't really care and I didn't bother looking at the video

"Don't confuse me with the facts, because my mind's already made up."

So - you say the PC is holding up production. In the interests of turning this into a useful conversion, in your experience can you tell me what aspect of the WOZ PC system you believe is holding up production, and why you believe this is happening?

Mike was not a competitor when he voiced his OPINION on the platform. Go back 90 odd pages and you will find that opinion way before the inception of Thunderbirds.

What's not professional is the sudden emergence of JJP Employees on this forum attacking a member rather than the comments made. As a FORMER supporter of this venture, I can't believe the rubbish I'm reading. It does not belong here and the only positive reason to leave it here is so that prospective customers can judge the company for themselves.

Simply unbelievable..

[ktm450]

If I ordered a game 2 1/2 years ago and had payed for it in full over 1 1/2 years ago and still didn't have it in my games room after being promised half a dozen different shipping dates, I'd be rightly pissed off too.

[skywalker]

If I ordered a game 2 1/2 years ago and had payed for it in full over 1 1/2 years ago and still didn't have it in my games room after being promised half a dozen different shipping dates, I'd be rightly pissed off too.

Extremely tough situation your gone through Champ,
on a positive note they are slowing being released, when the dust settles we'll all move on, some of us will find something else to piss & moan about      

[tonyt]

Operating system developer.  As stated above?   I said in an earlier thread I wrote the OS.  And the update mechanisms as well.

Sorry, still no clearer who you are. If you represent your company on the forum what is the issue with stating who you are?

[ddstoys]

Operating system developer.  As stated above?   I said in an earlier thread I wrote the OS.  And the update mechanisms as well.

Sorry, still no clearer who you are. If you represent your company on the forum what is the issue with stating who you are?

Lol It's Ok tony we all know who he is 

[Sunfox]

Mike was not a competitor when he voiced his OPINION on the platform. Go back 90 odd pages and you will find that opinion way before the inception of Thunderbirds.

What's not professional is the sudden emergence of JJP Employees on this forum attacking a member rather than the comments made. As a FORMER supporter of this venture, I can't believe the rubbish I'm reading. It does not belong here and the only positive reason to leave it here is so that prospective customers can judge the company for themselves.

Simply unbelievable..

As stated, I am not a JJP employee. But you quoted me, so I assume your problem is with me.

I'm just a pinball player, but I'm also a lover of facts. I find it difficult to come to grips with the opinion of someone who is so sure of himself that he absolutely refuses to acknowledge something as basic as WOZ booting up in 25 seconds when offered clear and indisputable evidence of this, and for some inexplicable reason actually prefers to remain in a cloud of ignorance based on something he heard.

That is not open-minded. That is not logical. How can you discuss anything?

Although I'm sure Mike has been planning Thunderbirds for at least a few months (when most of these opinions first started coming up), becoming a competitor has not prevented him from continuing to repeatedly share those opinions here and elsewhere, whether they have any basis in reality or not. I have no problem with opinions, but if they are not supported in any way and can be disproven by anyone who knows how to use Google, then I will not allow others who might be more trusting to be misled.

I'm far from perfect. Point out something I've said that is not supported by facts, and I will discuss it with you, and if you are correct then I will adjust my thinking.

If Mike wishes to support any of his claims with anything more than words and hearsay, then I welcome him to the discussion and will listen to his reasoning without bias.

[Pintoxicated]

Operating system developer.  As stated above?   I said in an earlier thread I wrote the OS.  And the update mechanisms as well.

Sorry, still no clearer who you are. If you represent your company on the forum what is the issue with stating who you are?

Lol It's Ok tony we all know who he is  

I don't know who he is either.  

All I can say is once again, I feel sorry for the guys that paid up front for their machines in good faith and to date have nothing to show for it.  I would like to think that they may be offered a pretty handy discount if they choose to buy another machine off Jack or some sort of gift or gesture as a way to repay the goodwill they originally showed JJP.  

End of the day we are a pretty close knit bunch, if someone burns someone else, we all find out about it eventually and take our business elsewhere.  Any retailer/producer is dealing with a fairly limited market when it comes to pinball and they need to respect the customers they have if they want to keep them.

[Retropin]

JJP's problems aren't Mike bagging a PC based system... we are all aware of Mikes opinions on these and have been BEFORE WOZ was even announced.
I saw the video and it boots in around 30 secs.. seems Ok to me.

Mikes opinions haven't changed one jot in all the time ive known him.. he doesn't like PC based systems for various reasons.

But... if JJP had put machines into people homes as promised again and again then we would all be well aware of how the WOZ system operates.. problem is that Jack hasn't done this despite repeated promises to the very contrary. In fact Jack hasn't told the very people who funded all this in the first place why their machines are delayed... people are very pissed.. the hype of WOZ has been long lost.. the system is still under speculation as it STILL has not been properly released.

JJP marketing strategy is more competition to Jack than any speculative opinions as to how well it will stand up over time.
No good coming on here complaining about bad publicity.... the hole is well and truly dug already

[ddstoys]

 

JJP's problems aren't Mike bagging a PC based system... we are all aware of Mikes opinions on these and have been BEFORE WOZ was even announced.
I saw the video and it boots in around 30 secs.. seems Ok to me.

Mikes opinions haven't changed one jot in all the time ive known him.. he doesn't like PC based systems for various reasons.

But... if JJP had put machines into people homes as promised again and again then we would all be well aware of how the WOZ system operates.. problem is that Jack hasn't done this despite repeated promises to the very contrary. In fact Jack hasn't told the very people who funded all this in the first place why their machines are delayed... people are very pissed.. the hype of WOZ has been long lost.. the system is still under speculation as it STILL has not been properly released.

JJP marketing strategy is more competition to Jack than any speculative opinions as to how well it will stand up over time.
No good coming on here complaining about bad publicity.... the hole is well and truly dug already

[tonyt]

Well said Gav.

My issue is that Pinchroma  has entered Aussie Pinball in exactly the same way that JJP entered pinball imo, with arrogance and negativity.

How about offering something constructive to the forum and not coming on here for the sole purpose of baiting a valued member of the forum?