Lady Luck is still giving me grief

[goodolddays]

For those who remember I did my 1st ground up restore on a '68 Williams Lady Luck last year . Man I have had a lot of faults with this game  . About 15 according to the notes I've kept.

Anyhoo finally bit the bullet today after quite a break to sort out why it wasn't always resetting the card count reels at the end of each ball. Tracked that down to a normally closed switch on the game over relay that was out only just out of adjustment.
Great .. fired with with that win thought I'd track down why player 2 1000's reel wasn't resetting to 0 (simple you all say) .. well i still haven't managed to fix that and in the meantime (beats the hell out of me how) , now it resets the card score when the ball drains before getting a chance to check the dealers score. It should reset the card score when you launch the next ball and it passes over a switch in the ball shooter lane.

Unfortunately I doubt anyone can help me sort this as this game is pretty unique .

Right now I am blooody annoyed with it so taking a break again ... I have the schematics and manual so will sort it out .. just currently can't understand how this is happening so a bit stumped where to look.

Such is life with old pinnies eh?

 

[oldpins]

Looks to be a interesting game (ipdb). EM's can be a real bugger, when sorting faults. With the schematics you will certainly work it out. Don't let it beat you

[goodolddays]

Looks to be a interesting game (ipdb). EM's can be a real bugger, when sorting faults. With the schematics you will certainly work it out. Don't let it beat you

Cheers mate. Its a great game I will never sell. One of only 4 Blackjack themed pins ever made according to my rsearch.

This morning when I woke up the 1st thought that popped into my head was yesterday when I was sussing out the relay that resets the point score relays was that I had made a mistake and adjusted a switch on the relay next to the one I wanted. Yes, you guessed it , that relay is the one to do with controlling the card count DOH!!! . So.. I had created the new fault .. no surprises there . So,  have fixed the fault I created yesterday  . Then got sidetracked by something more urgent so haven't had any more time today to continue . Must say though than I love fault finding EM's 

[Mr Pinbologist]

Looks to be a interesting game (ipdb). EM's can be a real bugger, when sorting faults. With the schematics you will certainly work it out. Don't let it beat you

 Must say though than I love fault finding EM's  

I dont, in all honesty EMs give me a large dose of the shits sometimes trying to locate faults (i lack patience   ) especially if schematics arent on hand.
The beauty of them though is that 90% of the time it ends up being an easy fix to get them running!! nearly always as simple as switch cleaning/adjustment.

I'm sure you'll sort out the problems with yours though.. it just takes time to weed out the niggling little problems.. i'm STILL doing that with my Zac Universe  

[Retropin]

LOl- all fixes are easy..... its the finding part thats hard

[ddstoys]

LOl- all fixes are easy..... its the finding part thats hard

No it's not Gav you just ask me LOL

[goodolddays]

I fixed the score reel not resetting .. dirty and slightly out of adjustment 9th position switch on the reel . Both manual and schematic are wrong which game me a bum steer.
They say reels are reset via 0 position switch, but in fact its the 9th position switch.
These 42 year old wire colours are pretty faded too.

Seems like I have one weird fault left , which is on 5th ball in 2 player game, machine resets player1 card count at end of player 2 5th ball, and gives player 2 another ball, then goes to game over when that ball drains. I think that one will prove tricky to track down. 

[Strangeways]

I'm not familiar with this game, but if it were a four player issue with the 4th player on the last ball, I'd be looking at the player unit. The stepper spring may be would too tight, not allowing travel to the last set of contacts (on the bakerlite). Could be something simple like that ?

[goodolddays]

I'm not familiar with this game, but if it were a four player issue with the 4th player on the last ball, I'd be looking at the player unit. The stepper spring may be would too tight, not allowing travel to the last set of contacts (on the bakerlite). Could be something simple like that ?

Thanks for the tip Nino . Will definitely take a look at that.

Cheers
Dave

[goodolddays]

OK .. any ideas anyone ??? My 2nd Lady Luck (which is presold) is busting on 20 instead of 22 or above . I have checked the score reels are correctly reporting 20 , 21, 22 etc . I thought it might be that the 10's card reel was reporting it was on 30 whehn actually on 20 etc but no luck . The only thing I can find is that when the 20 relay is tripped, the reistance on the earth lug of the coil for the bust relay drops from 4.6 to 3.6 ohms (and if the bust relay is tripped the resistance goes back to 4.6 ohms)
I can't find anything else wrong in the circuit (see circuit attached) .

Any ideas anyone ? I have spent way too much time chasing this fault already . I can't sell this game to my cousin till I sort this out and really want this game sold and out of here ASAP.

Any help much appreciated.

Cheers
Dave

[goodolddays]

Forgot to add I have jumpered the switch on the ball index relay while fault finding (as it provides earth for this circuit) and coil resistance for the bust relay measures the same as other coils in the relay bank.

[goodolddays]

Anyone got any ideas on this ???

[Retropin]

Only place where "BUST" and 20 points are related is at "2nd player 10 point card" - 2nd increment.

There is a 2 way relay at "A player relay"... as far as i can tell, this is the only path to ground for 20 points.
If A player is misaligned so it is NOT opening one side of the contacts, game will bust at 20.

OR

2nd player 10 point card is not resetting to ZERO when its meant to

[Retropin]

In fact... this can ONLY happen if 2nd Player is at 2nd increment.... my money is on this not being at zero

[goodolddays]

Thanks for the thougts Gav.

As I see it though, path to ground when 10 point card reel is at '2' is only to 20 relay .
Path to ground for player bust relay is if
a) A player relay is not activated (which is in single player mode) and No 8 or No 9 relay is activated (at 18 or 19 repectively.. which I've checked work correctly) and Rollover relay is activated and 10 pt card reel is at '3' .. ie 30.

or b) either 1 point card reel is at '2' and 20 relay is tripped.

Even if 10 point card reel is at '2' (20) and 1 point card reel is at '0' and A player make/break switch is not open on side to 1 point card reels, the path to ground (to bust relay) is via No 8 or No 9 relay and rollover relay switches.
As I've said earlier.. I have checked that when 10 point card reel (checked both reels) are at '2' there is no ground on position 3 and when either one point card reel is at '0' there is no ground on position 2 or above.