WHITE LEDs or COLOURED LEDs ???

[Marty Machine]

Hi All,

After looking over some of my pins in recent days and *pondering* replacing some #44 globes with LEDs,
I wanted to know which way is preferable? WHITE leds? or COLOURED leds?

Theoretically, the entire playfield should be replaced with warm-WHITE leds to mimic the previous #44 globes (well, ok, the #44's are basically orange anyway)...

However, how much difference is there if i put coloured leds under the matching colour inserts?

For example, a playfield may have 10 red, 10 green, 10 blue and 10 yellow inserts all curently firtted with #44 globes in them.

Do I :

a) put 10 red,green,blue,yellow leds under the respective coloured inserts?
or,
b) put 40 white leds under all the inserts in general?


I imagine some inserts fade over time, and could do with some vivid colouring from the leds, but many inserts may not need coloured leds at all, in fact if the colour of the led doesn't match the insert colour, you may get a fairly poor looking colour anyway??

anyone with comparison pics or anything?

MM.

[pinnies4me]

Not sure for an overall change, but one thing I found when adding white flashers to the red saucers on AFM was that the result was slightly orange, and not nearly as red as I would like. Almost as if the intense light washes the colour out a bit.  Haven't tried reds yet to see the result though, so don't know if will be any better.

[Olivia_jason]

i used blue leds on my machines, looks great and white under inserts,

[Marty Machine]

Not sure for an overall change, but one thing I found when adding white flashers to the red saucers on AFM was that the result was slightly orange, and not nearly as red as I would like. Almost as if the intense light washes the colour out a bit.  Haven't tried reds yet to see the result though, so don't know if will be any better.

I guess if RED leds aren't an exact shade of red, you can always wrap a white led with red 'lighting gel'
(it's a thick coloured film (like non-adhesive mylar, basically a hi-temp version of 'cellophane' we all played with in primary school).
Lighting gel is available in a range of shades for the fussiest colour-matcher on the pinnies ;-)

MM.

[Homepin]

behind insets matching colours - LED to insert - gives MUCH brighter results & much better colour richness every time from my experience

[Retropin]

RED LED is red in the pure light spectrum... so it is red. Blue LED is the same... blue in the light spectrum. WHITE LED is VERY expensive, so 99% of white is a blue LED with a phosphour coating and something like Galium used to excite the phosphours. As such depending on the manufaturer, white LED will be varying shades of blue through to a yellowing white. Colour white is also dependant on the batch made... one batch cannot be guaranteed to match another etc.

How they will affect the machine is really dependant on the inserts used and the true colours in them. If you have a true blue insert and place a RED led behind it... you will see next to no light come through as the light given off by the LED will only be picked up by any red in the insert.
I put some LED's into my CENTAUR... results were very disappointing.... absolutely no difference on the orange/ red to a standard 555 globe. Green was a little better. Blue was deeper but also duller, plus there was a lot of strobing. I kept some and went back to standard 555 on the orange inserts

[Marty Machine]

Thanx Guys for the info...

I guess at the end of the day it comes down to personal preference on the final look after trying several combinations of everything ;-) ;-)

[Caveoftreasures]

Marty, yellow n orange inserts are almost impossible to work with, and both orange and yellow Leds are less than great. A standard bulb works better under these colours unless you use a 3LED bright white LED from cointaker/pinball life or RTBB if Greg has them (I am sure he would).

Green under green, red under red, blue under blue etc works well, but orange n yellow are not successful at all.
I find std general illumination is best to keep std new bulbs in them, unless u use a warm white LED but it does not give the general light like a candescent bulb does. LEds are great for inserts, and some GI if used very sparingly, but not the best for all GI.

One thing though, any machine with a RARE backglass, does benefit greatly by having LEDS in the backbox to get rid of damaging heat from candescent bulbs. I am in the process of removing the std bulbs from my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles backbox and Black Knight 2000 backbox to keep the heat/damage away from the original glass's which will benefit by LEDS. I will use a wide angle white LEd that is not super bright. That works best. Hope it helps, but i know u are switched on and would have it handled by now anyway.  

[Marty Machine]

Thanx cavey, good to know....

I guess my next step is to now grab some leds for some trials before committing into 'a whole machine' overhaul.
(with the exception of a few 44's and 555's where needed.

MM.

[Strangeways]

It is more down to personal taste. I'm a newbie with LEDs, and Greg (RTBB) has been a fantastic help in LEDding three games - ToM, Terminator 3 and Tales from the crypt. The resto threads cover the LEDs with results.

I think the first thing to go is decide if the game can be improved with the use of LEDs. The three examples above were INCREDIBLY improved with LEDs. But a game I restored in between ToM and Terminator 3, WCS 94, did not look good with LEDS. That's my personal opinion. As the salesman at JB Hi Fi once told me - "I'll put tape over the manufacturer's name on each of the Televisions in the store, and the chances are you might pick a no name brand over a Panasonic. Everyone has a different set of eyes.." That's the analogy I draw.

Once you have decided that the game should have LEDs, you need a wide selection of LEDs at hand. Start with the inserts. A later game like ToM uses super brights. We used standard 180s, but they didn't look right. Ghosting was not a problem on this title. I tried using super brights on T3, and the playfield was littered with ghosting LEDs. I reverted back to 180s and it looked much better. Make sure you play the game, as ghosting can be a real problem once things get hectic. Ghosting is not a huge problem in attract mode.

As mike suggests, use the color of the insert as a guide. Be aware that a blue insert on a Stern won't be the same as a Bally Williams or Data East. This is where you need a wide selection of LEDs for trial and error. I don't use white LEDs in colored inserts.

GI - Use 180's and fit the plastics as you move around the playfield. Note that light is dispersed and can create awesome effects - bleeding and blending in with surrounding hardware.

Backbox - Use 180's and play around with colors. This is where you may have to use the standard globes in some places. The difference LEDs make to a backbox is profound.

Flashes - 89 and 906. Look AWESOME on and under the playfield. Not so good in Backbox

PO bumpers - Use the specific LEDs. They look great

I ended up buying a mixture of 100 or so LEDs from RTBB. Mix and match as you go along. Be prepared to experiment. It is great fun !

Hope that helps..

[Crashramp]

I tried some white LED's last night on my DE SW backglass..... Looked like Darth Vader had a case of the blue measles! I think I'll look into it a bit more before  trying again.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

It really depends on the aplication
modern Sterns use a crappy blue insert, putting a blue LED under those, makes them reallly stand out

I also used cool-white LEDs in my Iron man under the Mark 1-V inserts as they look closer to what tony's arc reactor looks like in the movie
I also used differnt colored LEDs under the ramp inserts cause they were boring

on Spiderman, I used green LEDs as GI lamps under the Goblin
I also used Red LEDs under the slingshots ansd flipper feederlanes, combined with those etched web plastic protectors, it gives the area a different look
I used yellow LEDs in the GI near the Sandman, but that was a waste of effort