Author Topic: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?  (Read 530 times)

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Offline Pop Bumper Pete

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Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« on: August 19, 2012, 01:45:19 PM »
Where do you see BBB prices in the future?

Big Bang Bar, great looking game, less then 200 made
But we now see several ‘boutique’ pinball manufactures popping up, Animal house, Magic girl, Wizard of Oz , etc…
(Yes, we are yet to see a single game from any of them)
Even Stern is producing true LE’s with special features not found on their regular run games

In the future, those with the ca$h to spend on a rare title will have more to choose from, and will be able to have ‘bragging rights’ without having to wait for a CC or BBB to come up for sale

So where do you see the prices for current ‘Rare’ titles going in the future?

Up?
Down?
About the same?

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 02:32:58 PM »
Buying to $ invest in, or buying just to play and enjoy for a number of years, two different answers really, but to my thinking prices will be going down each n every year a little because there are more n more new titles with newer technology coming out which competes for the $9,000 plus price tag.

Since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, someone who wants that title no matter what, might happily pay alot more, but the older some games get, the more prices slowly but surely retract. Just look at every other rare title out there, everything has dropped in price due to massive numbers of different titles to compete with.

Before Australia had over 100 seafreight containers brought in from overseas in the last 36 months, everything was appreciating, but these days there are just too much to chose from, and we all know the supply versus demand rule.    As an investment, most pins now are flat, but if u buy a BBB to keep forever, and you dont overpay, or if u get it for what u think is a bargain, it wont matter if its a long term keeper.

ps - a beautiful looking game which most say is a excellent player.
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Marty Machine

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 03:46:37 PM »
Hmmmm that horrible word "investment"

BBB will be 1/2 what is it today, and i'm being overly generous.....
Doya think anyones gonna get $8-$10k back on their AC/DC in 10+ years? nope!

If the pinny market is such a hot invesment, why isn't it's activity listed on Wall street?
It's simply been hyped up by dealers worldwide to promote sales, nothing more.

Buy a pinny because YOU enjoy the gameplay and what it offers, but never purchase because some dealer says "it's a great investment".
Anyone who persists in saying "it's a good investment" should be shot for their stupidity (buyer or seller).

If you're next pinny purchase is based on the reasoning of "investment", then perhaps you should walk away, and just buy a machine YOU enjoy.
Afterall, they say "a fool and their money are soon parted"

ok, to clarify.

1) Pinny dealer: Buy a pin for $500, sell for $3k = Business/Investment
2) Home User: Buy a pin for $3k, sell for $3k (but usually always less) = NOT an investment.

It's extremely rare for a home-user to buy an upmarket pinny for $5k-10k and make a profit on it years later....
Very rare!!!

Dealer wins, buyer loses, it's that simple!!!!!


MM.

Offline Cow Corner

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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2012, 05:57:03 PM »
Hmmmm that horrible word "investment"

BBB will be 1/2 what is it today, and i'm being overly generous.....
Doya think anyones gonna get $8-$10k back on their AC/DC in 10+ years? nope!

If the pinny market is such a hot invesment, why isn't it's activity listed on Wall street?
It's simply been hyped up by dealers worldwide to promote sales, nothing more.

Buy a pinny because YOU enjoy the gameplay and what it offers, but never purchase because some dealer says "it's a great investment".
Anyone who persists in saying "it's a good investment" should be shot for their stupidity (buyer or seller).

If you're next pinny purchase is based on the reasoning of "investment", then perhaps you should walk away, and just buy a machine YOU enjoy.
Afterall, they say "a fool and their money are soon parted"

ok, to clarify.

1) Pinny dealer: Buy a pin for $500, sell for $3k = Business/Investment
2) Home User: Buy a pin for $3k, sell for $3k (but usually always less) = NOT an investment.

It's extremely rare for a home-user to buy an upmarket pinny for $5k-10k and make a profit on it years later....
Very rare!!!

Dealer wins, buyer loses, it's that simple!!!!!


MM.


+1
Very well said!
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Offline pinnies4me

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2012, 08:29:04 PM »
Not so sure with the AC/DC comparison - one is legendary, and the other is a Stern, and can be rereleased (licence permitting).

As for BBB, the original protos don't appear to have suffered the rapid price decline predicted by the naysayers they thought would occur when the reissue came about. One sold recently for reportedly $30k.

As for the repros, they have gathered their own almost legendary status, and are likely to hold their value ok I suspect.
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2012, 09:36:42 PM »

Marty is spot on here. Pinball is NOT an investment. That was a tune played by a dealer years ago. If pinball was an investment, then why are they so expensive to buy, and rarely see their value remain the same when they sell ? Just a sales pitch, and a poor one at that.

BBB is a unique collector's machine. It would be one of the rare games that will keep it's value. There would not be many games that fall into this category. Mermaid, Krull, KISS, Asteroid Annie, TKO, Eclipse and Voltan come to mind. Super rare and limited in numbers.
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Marty Machine

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 11:29:42 PM »
A BBB selling for $30k is only because someone REALLY wanted it, and has crazy cash to buy such items.
a) it doesn't mean BBB is 'worth' $30k.
b) It doesn't prove BBB is stable investment either....it's simply an opportunist sale, nothing more..
It's like buying a lotto ticket every week, it's not an invesmtent, but when you win $M's it's simply lucky, not in vestment.

If an item can't offer a Repeated gains, then it can't technially be classed as an investment.

If i buy 10 BBB's tomorrow, i highly doubt i'd get to sell them all at $30k will i?


Victims of Hype !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline pinnies4me

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2012, 11:40:35 PM »
Never suggested anything about value of that original, just information. Someone clearly was prepared to pay big $, up to others to decide what that means. It does set a precedent more valuable than a negative opinion I suppose.
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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2012, 11:45:31 PM »
Reminds me of that age old joke......"some people like to pay $1 for this pot, and some people like to pay $20 for this pot"

People with bags of money can happily buy what they want, it doesn't mean the item is WORTH the pricetag.

Offline pinnies4me

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2012, 11:49:08 PM »
Agreed, the guy with $30k for that game surely has run out if ideas how to spend a very large wad of cash.Good on him, does make it hard for real pin guys to compete against such a precedent. Until one does sell for less, we're stuck with this as the last sale to compare to.
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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 01:14:05 PM »
There are a few ways to look at what a rare title is worth, and it can be done by ignoring a recent sale which might have been a one off that might be seen as a crazy price.

Most great games, like brand new Sterns to use as a example, usually sell in Australia for say $6500. (lets use Pro models just for this example cause Pro models have many more years of resale figuresw than the current LE stock).
So a PRO model anything is say $6500 brand new, And for resale the models can fetch between $4500 and $5500 most of the time based on condition, home use only, being minty etc etc.

So, the price drop from brand new, from a percentage point can be calculted in general terms as apx 30% depreciation/loss to a figure of 15%.

Then u get a game like BBB which lets say sold brand new for lets say $10,000 (10 grand in todays money just to make the figure easy to play with). BBB production was apx 200 machines only. The machine is a beauty, it plays like it looks and people love it. It cant be easily replaced, and it has come to represent the pinnacle of A class collectable pinball machine to high end collectors because it is rare, popular and looks the goods.

So i would argue that it is worth the money it was when brand new, cause all low production numbers of anything hold their value and depreciate very little. So lets say it hasnt depreciated the 15 to 30 percent a Stern has/does etc. Therefore, lets say its still worth the $10,000 for arguments sake.
Then u have a buyer who wants one, nobody is selling, and u want one. The seller says I am not selling it unless i get my 10 grand back, and i want profit cause it will never be available again, because they are so rare and nobody sells them. What figure would u place on top, an extra 25 % of original cost or an extra 50% of cost.

Therefore, I would calculate that the machine would be a minimum of say $10,000 to buy, or a maximum of say $15 grand, if using the example money of say $10,000 purchase cost in todays money. That sort of seems maybe a realistic way of trying to work out a price for something rare and extremely hard to replace.

Will it drop in value a bit here n there over the next 5 to 10 years, yes, but it depends on what new machines come out, and just how good they are technology wise compared to the nice games like BBB.  Is it worth 30 grand, no way, could it be argued at $15,000 probably. Could it be argued its worth 10 grand, definately.
Thats how i think most might, MIGHT try n work out a realistic resale price in Australia to maybe most aussies. Just a stab in the dark trying to use a little bit of common sense, if there is such a thing when pricing pinball machines.lol  :D
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 01:16:46 PM by Caveoftreasures »
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Offline greatwichjohn

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 02:32:29 PM »
I picked one up for a guy at $10k US, 2 years ago. Now you would be lucky to get one $12k - $15k. Prices are going up, as people hold onto their pins. Demand is greater than supply, pure economics!
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Offline MonsterBash

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2012, 12:11:02 AM »
I agree with this.

So here's my take on BBB.

There are about 200 of these made +- a couple to include the originals.  People that are buying 10~15k pins probably aren't asking 'how much.'  The same with space...chances are these same people have more access to Sq FTage and don't have to move a pin because of space.

As the original $5000 purchasers sell of to cash out, these games are ending up in the 'secondary' market of basically (for lack of better words) unlimited funds\space market.  Once the BBB find this home..chance are you won't see it for sale...thus the 12-15k price tag for these.

I think only when that 'unlimited' market passes on...or sells to downsize (retire...etc) will there ever be a major price drop in BBB. If these guys wanna buy a game...they usually aren't funding it by selling off anther. You may see it pricing fluctuate a bit (maybe 1-2k up \down) but I think these prices are here to stay for a while.

From what I've seen in the last couple years...this 'unlimited' market is actually growing way more than people getting out (At least in the States).  I've been collecting since about 1998 and I've met more new collectors in the past 2-3 year...than in the previous 10. I know of a local guy that started collecting in June.  He's an arcade game collector and wanted a pin.  I sold him my Sorcerer for $500 to get him started.  He now has well over 10 pins (in less than 3 months) including a NIB Stern and a couple HUO Sterns.  I don't know of a single person that's gotten out of collecting.

Simple supply and demand.

You opinion may vary....



I picked one up for a guy at $10k US, 2 years ago. Now you would be lucky to get one $12k - $15k. Prices are going up, as people hold onto their pins. Demand is greater than supply, pure economics!

Offline ktm450

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2012, 01:00:22 PM »
Absolutely agree, end of the day it is all about supply and demand, how much is someone prepared to pay for the occasional one that appears for sale?  That is the market value.

Offline ausrhino

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Re: Where do you see BBB prices in the future?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2012, 01:01:30 PM »
From what I've seen in the last couple years...this 'unlimited' market is actually growing way more than people getting out (At least in the States).  I've been collecting since about 1998 and I've met more new collectors in the past 2-3 year...than in the previous 10. I know of a local guy that started collecting in June.  He's an arcade game collector and wanted a pin.  I sold him my Sorcerer for $500 to get him started.  He now has well over 10 pins (in less than 3 months) including a NIB Stern and a couple HUO Sterns.  I don't know of a single person that's gotten out of collecting.

Simple supply and demand.

I will give you the perspective of the otherside. I am new - the pinball wax behind my ears hasn't even dried yet.  I am I have been a PC nut for a long time - however held a very solid intrest in playing pinnies - not owning them.  I have just recently taken my first step into the market.  I can say that after my purchase I know of another 3 other mates that are now seriously considering making the jump.  Specially with the recent Mancave explosion.  I recently finished making a mame arcade http://clints.weebly.com/arcade.html - but after buying this pinball I am damn hooked and have been throwing myself into it.

I think this graph regarding pinball sales says a lot - http://www.bostonpinball.biz/ebay0512.htm and confirms what Monster Bash is saying - sales dropping with prices rising.  The problem with pinball is that there are only so many machines out there - with very few machines entering the market.