pinball machine kits by a sydney guy that you assemble / build

[swinks]

A Sydney pinsider posted this today advertising that he is potentially going to make and sell pinball machine kits, still in the concept stage.

"Hi,

We're in the process of designing a pinball kit. What's a pinball kit?

Basically it's the IKEA of pinballs. We will supply everything you need to assemble a pinball table. This includes the flippers, pop bumpers, posts and rubber, lights (LEDs), scoring display, electronics, wiring and power supply.

The kit does not look like a full size machine with legs and back-glass. However, it is a full size table at the correct angle. The base is wooden and covered in an acrylic overlay that has the play-field artwork on the underside. All holes are pre-drilled and LEDs are mounted to the wooden section, as are the solenoids and other mechanical components. An 8-digit LED-style scoring display is mounted in the bottom section of the table. We will use a mix of our own parts and real parts. Major components like flippers, pop-bumpers, posts and rubber will be real. No glass will cover the table. We think it's more fun to play without the glass anyway!

We can't copy existing tables due to copyright restrictions so the first table we're designing is original. But, it does have the things you've come to expect in a great table. Lanes, targets, gates, roll-overs etc. as well as bonus multipliers, extra ball, specials and more. Our first table will be retro-looking, like the tables of the late 70's and early 80's.

As we progress with new tables we'll be adding drop targets, ramps, captive balls, multi-ball etc.

What makes this unique is that we're going to open up the design of the pinball tables to the public and build kits based on submitted designs. Not all designs will be manufactured but we'll select the best from the bunch. It only has to be a rough drawing with notes about game-play. You're welcome to submit artwork ideas too and our artists will design them properly for the table. Having said that we're not after designs at this stage but we do want to know what you think and if you'd be interested in this product.

Pricing is expected to be around US$800-$1000 for the first table.

We want this to be fun to build, fun to play, and fun to customise.

Let us know what you think.

Regards,
The Pinball Kits Team"




"Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. We'll try to answer the questions that have come up so far.

Prototype
It's in construction at the moment and we too would hold out on buying one until we saw pictures and a video. No point ordering something you've never seen working.

Glass
Sounds like it's mandatory. We were trying to keep the costs down with the kit. We may have to offer this as an option. Yes, there is the noise and dirt factor that glass can reduce.

Size
The table will be a standard table size based on the Gottlieb 70's/80's EM machines.

The Look
It looks like a real pinball table, it just doesn't have the cabinet. We've done this because we want to keep costs down and because if you're really serious you could use a real cabinet and mount the table into it.

Mechanical Assembly
The nuts, bolts, screws, playfield assembly is done easily with a screwdriver and a spanner. There won't be any drilling. That's all done. Just mount the components.

Electrical Assembly
We're still discussing whether to supply a pre-made wiring harness with screw-in terminals, or a pre-made harness with soldered terminals, or a pre-made harness with connectors. There are some things to consider here. 1) not everyone can solder, 2) screwing wires to terminal blocks is easy but time consuming, 3) using connectors is even easier but without a locking mechanism they could fall out. Our prototype is hand soldered at the moment of course but we want to make this simple for the end user. We're probably going to select option 3. This option also means there can be minimal mistakes when you connect electrical components. There's nothing worse than building something and it doesn't work. Connectors would mostly eliminate this problem. Naturally each kit would be tested before leaving us.

Game Play and Computer Software
This is not based on a PC. This is a stand-alone system. There is nothing to code, we do that for you and the system comes pre-programmed. Plug in the micro-controller and switch it on. We're basing the system on the popular Arduino open-source electronic platform. Why? Well there are a few reasons. Firstly, there's a lot of code available at the moment to speed development. Secondly, a lot of people can program using this micro-controller. Thirdly, we're looking at releasing the source code so you can tinker, modify and share your game/scoring with others. We think this is important. Rather than just building the game and playing it, we think updating it, changing it, or making the game-play better is also half the fun. It's also fun to share with the rest of the pinball community. It also makes the game more accessible to those that never thought of building a pinball machine but have a love of the Arduino. So, the electronics are made in-house based around this system. We do not want to use existing pinball electronics or systems from a third party supplier. We want to keep everything in-house.

Power
A sealed 110-240 volt switch mode power supply is supplied with the kit.

Customer designed play-fields
No, we are not making individual play-fields for customers. Yes, we will accept designs from customers and select a design that we think will be popular. We'll probably open it up for discussion and feedback and only then put it into production. We will design a production version for each game and test before releasing it.

Deposit?
We're not sure what you mean by this. We're not taking deposits at all. When the kit is ready to ship only then will we take orders and payment.

An Atari?
No, we're not making anything like that. We're using mostly real parts (pop bumpers, stand-offs, rubber, flippers). It's also a full size table.

Table layouts based on existing machines
We know that the artwork is copyright and we're investigating whether game-play or play-field layout is also copyright. However, we're in two minds here about existing layouts assuming there are no copyright issues. We could design the kit to be just like a real layout. Let's pick Playboy for example. Everyone knows that machine. 1) Why would we want to make Playboy when the actual machine already exists? People could simply buy a second hand version. 2) If we made Playboy people would compare it to the real one and pick differences between the table layout, the artwork, the materials used. Discussions would descend into the usual level of negative comment. 3) Perhaps people would buy a kit version of Playboy because the real one is too expensive or not available. 4) Why try to make an existing machine when we can make something completely new and perhaps a lot more fun and challenging to play? As you can see there are a number of things to think about. We're concerned that negativity towards a 'clone' of an existing table would hurt what we're trying to achieve here, which is, to make a pinball machine at home accessible, fun to build and great to play.

Our prototype play field
We've incorporated elements from Firepower, Close Encounters and Duotron into the prototype. This is more a proof of concept rather than a final design. No doubt there will be people out there that have their favourite machine, or like elements of that machine. A captive ball, a rotary target, spinners etc. However as we first mentioned we'd like to base our first kit on the classic tables from the 70's and 80's. Given the modern electronics we have now, we can build a machine that has a more complex scoring system, is more interesting to play and has more flashing lights!

By the way, we're based in Sydney, Australia and have no connection with any past or present pinball companies. We have done a lot of electronic/interfacing projects before on complex avionics systems and we're pretty excited to bring this one to production. Yes, we like aircraft, but we like pinballs even more!

Thanks for all of the comments so far.

Regards,
The Pinball Kits Team"




"Hi,

Not sure who Ben Heck is.

We're using the 256 KB ATMEGA2560 controller. At the moment one CPU can handle all of the switch, solenoid and lighting I/O, as well as game logic and scoring display. We want to keep the part count down and feel that a single CPU is easier for people to tinker with in the future.

Remember, this is a kit that's designed to give an enhanced level of game play to a 70's / 80's style game, not something as sophisticated as say Adams Family or the new AC/DC machine. Having said that, we think we've improved on the early machine designs and offer a modern take on the 'retro' style of game. We can have more of the modern game's features like; flipper button changes A-B-C lane lights, ball is returned to playfield if it drains within a certain time after release, better animation of lights etc. The things we now take for granted but didn't exist back then.

Regards,
The Pinball Kits Team"





"Hi,

The table is supported underneath by an inclined base on either side of the table. This means you can play it on any flat surface of your choice. If we start offering legs and a cabinet it will push the price up. This doesn't mean you can't buy steel legs from say http://www.marcospecialties.com and attach them. We're also being careful to make sure you'll be able to fit it into a real cabinet if you wish.

The goal is to make an affordable, realistic table that plays like a real table. We want you to have fun building it, playing it and enjoying software updates to game-play that we bring out or someone else in the community brings out. We're using real pinball parts such as pop bumpers, flippers, rubber and play-field posts.

As you can probably tell we're passionate about pinball and with so many iPad and xbox games around we'd like to bring some interest back into 'real' things. We can't think of anything better than making something yourself or with friends or with your kids. It would be nice to open up the field of pinball to new people and keep it alive. We think this is one way of doing it.

Regards,
The Pinball Kits Team"

[swinks]

these were my thoughts, what are yours


"Hi pinballkits

I think the idea is neat and has some potential.

Like others I would like to see a kit and then could decide from there - but for me I have always wanted to one design and build my own pinball from the ground up.

As others have said glass is important but I have a concern about being electrocuted, more so kids. If us guys have this concept on a table and it has sides to achieve the playfield elevation and support glass it's a classic "where do you start and where do you stop" meaning do you have a base to then stop little hands reaching up while you are playing and getting zapped and starts to get bigger and heavier.

I might be wrong and don't want to tell you how to do it but maybe this could be a option that might gel with people and be cheaper to freight.

The Pinball Kits Team - supplies:
- a playfield with art
- all wiring to play a game on the playfield
- all the parts to assemble the playfield to the point of playing
- 1 controller system
- 1 display for scoring with the design capable of adding 1-3 more scores displays for multiply players for me 2 person player would be good.

then instead of the bench style frame or a pinball cabinet you supply plans for both those options and it is up to the owner to design which one to build. This allows people to achieve the pinball look but with the challenging stuff done - wiring, rules and design. This allows everyone to build a table top cabinet like your intention for the playfield or the full blown cabinet with glass, legs and back box and with your cabinet plans the thinking is done but allows everyone to really build their own pinball.

Then when you bring out other playfields people can get a second kit cheaper as they wouldn't need the displays or control system as simply lift out the playfield and drop in the next one - you just need to keep things consistent.

I think this idea is great and has potential but not a fan of the bench top but would grab a kit that I can assemble and then I build my own cabinet to house the playfield, displays etc"

[Homepin]

I think the concept is great BUT - who is this?

They don't/won't even put a name or any identifying info on their posts? They have no contact details - no website - seemingly little knowledge of pinball history (by their posts) - no NOTHING!!

I'm sceptical but hopeful.

[swinks]

small update

"Hi all,

We're looking at two options here for shipping. The first is to manufacture the blank tables, CNC routed wood only, in the USA and then ship the table overlay (artwork), mechanical and electrical components in a smaller and lighter package from Australia. Or, the other option is to ship the whole lot from Australia. With the $800-$1000 price we're aiming at we'll probably manufacture the table 'blank' in the USA and ship from there.

We also don't want to ship glass because of unit cost, shipping cost, and possible breakage. So, again we'll probably ship from there, or give you the name of a pinball supplier that can send the glass to you. Or you can pick it up. Remember, the table will be designed to be a drop in replacement into an existing cabinet, or you can use it as a table only with the side supports we'll supply at the right angle.

On the subject of sound here is what we're doing. The kit will ship with NO sound components. Remember, we're trying to keep the cost down. HOWEVER, this is what we're doing. Each time the pinball hits a target, bumper, switch etc. the Arduino microcontroller will send a serial command, via USB, to your PC. (Note, you don't need a PC to run the pinball. It is a stand-alone product but you will need a PC for sound). We then supply free PC software that monitors the USB port and can respond to each command from the pinball and play a .wav file. You will have control of the wave files you want or use our default files. It will be a simple Windows application with a list of switches, bumpers etc. and you assign a sound to that item. We think this is a great idea because you can tailor the sounds to your liking.

We'd love to show what we've made so far but as with all things that are not yet production-ready, the wrong impression can be given. So, we'll wait until it looks fantastic and then show you what we've done.

Regards,
The Pinball Kits Team"

[Homepin]

Still no name - no background - nothing really 

[pinsanity]

Thanks swinks for the info, it sounds interesting, keep us updated.

[Caveoftreasures]

 Jady, can u pls change the blue writing to white or green or something different, its almost impossible to read.

Cavey.

[swinks]

changed, was just trying to show that they were quotes, back to black.

[swinks]

Still no name - no background - nothing really 

I agree, interesting but concerning as well

[Caveoftreasures]

changed, was just trying to show that they were quotes, back to black.

thanks Jady, u can click on the slanted type symbol to make it look like quoted text, or green works really well, or both. thanks mate. 

[swinks]

the guys copped alot of questions and concerns so this was there final comment and now a waiting game:
Hi,

Thanks to all those that have commented on our project. We do value the feedback but it can get confused with people's passion for the way they want to see things done. That's fine. We all do things a different way. However we have a lot of experience in this area.

Our electrical engineer has a PhD and has designed complex aviation simulation hardware. The hardware consisted of around 16 micro-stepping motors that required complex math for acceleration and deceleration in an integer based micro-controller. It also had a complex array of individually addressable LED displays, it used hardware interrupts for multiple AB rotary encoders, had a scan driven switch matrix, a boot-loader coded in assembly language and it had to talk to a PC. All this was done in real-time with communication over USB using a FTDI chip. So it had to be fast, accurate and flawless. Tens of thousands of lines of code went into this system, not to mention the PC software which also had just as many lines of code which I wrote. Then we had to manufacture, ship and support the product. We've also built many other similar systems but this will give you an idea of where we're coming from and our capabilities.

So, as you can see we're more than qualified and experienced enough to know how to build hardware, write software and ship product. We're also pinball enthusiasts so we understand the game. Oh, and the team members are all over 40 so we're not kids.

At this point we're going to bow out of the forums for a while now until we can show you what we have achieved. Then we'll let the market decide where the future lies.

Thanks again for your interest in the idea.

Regards,
The Pinball Kits Team

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Seems a bit childish to announce a project, then cry foul because not everybody is 100% behind it
Then chuck a hissy fit and disappear from the scene

Imagine what they would be like during production and a home builder had "issues"

[Retropin]

Forums are full of people who know how to do stuff better than you and yet those same people ironically aren't doing anything at all except dispensing opinions and advice.

I dont blame them for pulling out of the forums.... you can either make this project or spend your time behind a keyboard justifying every choice youve made.

[pinnies4me]

Seems a bit childish to announce a project, then cry foul because not everybody is 100% behind it
Then chuck a hissy fit and disappear from the scene

Imagine what they would be like during production and a home builder had "issues"

+1.

I find it odd they came onto the forums, looked for feedback, get some, then sook off. Maybe they should start a Facebook page, and do a Stern on anything they don't want to hear??

My only issue was that the people behind this wanted to hide their identities - makes no sense to me, unless there is something to hide.

Anyway, hopefully they'll be back with product, a company name and some details of who's who to help people decide if they want to buy a kit - I will in any event, looks like a fun "backbone" to a game that would lend itself to other projects.

[Strangeways]

Seems a bit childish to announce a project, then cry foul because not everybody is 100% behind it
Then chuck a hissy fit and disappear from the scene

Imagine what they would be like during production and a home builder had "issues"

+1.

I find it odd they came onto the forums, looked for feedback, get some, then sook off. Maybe they should start a Facebook page, and do a Stern on anything they don't want to hear??

My only issue was that the people behind this wanted to hide their identities - makes no sense to me, unless there is something to hide.

Anyway, hopefully they'll be back with product, a company name and some details of who's who to help people decide if they want to buy a kit - I will in any event, looks like a fun "backbone" to a game that would lend itself to other projects.

+1

Not the first time a so called "Pinball Manufacturer" has taken their bat and ball and left the public eye. I cannot understand how an AUSTRALIAN "Pinball Manufacturer" has to post updates on a USA forum ? You would think they would post on an AUSTRALIAN forum ?

Sheldon Cooper has a PHD on String Theory and Quantum Space / Time continuum. That does not make him a Pinball Manufacturer.

I would expect a website or official statement on PinballNews to validate this project.