The Aussie Pinball Arcade
Aussie Pinball Forums => General Discussion => General Pinball Discussion => Topic started by: swinks on April 04, 2012, 10:48:33 AM
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With out voting for your home town, if we were to have a pinball show in 2013, we would have to be a little strategic to get maximum support as well as be affordable for most to visit.
eg if it was in Sydney we could maybe get support from AMD, where as I know if a location like Newcastle was on the cards rent for a location would be cheaper but visitor numbers would be less.
Now time like the present to get people motivated and you never know.
Cast your votes
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Still on the pinball show subject to get better numbers should the show be combined with other shows to get better exposure and better numbers?
Please those lucky enough to have gone to a show please share your experiences as well.
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Having never organised a show nor been to one for that matter, what does it take to organise show?
As any member here been part of a team that host the only show a few years ago? What do you know needs to be considered?
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By all reports alot of money and there's alot of red tape with councils and insurance and so on.
Peter
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Melbourne is where it is all is at, If you could keep out the bitching, there are more major dealers and parts suppliers in Melbourne than elsewhere in Australia.
This is where alot of the setup costs could be recuperated, by alowing the dealers to have stalls with parts for sale etc.
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Melbourne is where it is all is at, If you could keep out the bitching, there are more major dealers and parts suppliers in Melbourne than elsewhere in Australia.
This is where alot of the setup costs could be recuperated, by alowing the dealers to have stalls with parts for sale etc.
+1
Would be a political nightmare if the dealers were involved. For this reason, it might be better outside of Melbourne. If it was an enthusiast's event, then it would have to be Melbourne. Having said that, if the Pinball Museum on the Gold Coast was up and running, then QLD would be the obvious choice.
I know it was extremely difficult to organize the Expo 2009, but on face value it was successful. It was uncomfortable to realize that the event was more about selling pins than having a genuine effort to present the hobby to the public. I guess that if the reason behind the Expo is to promote machines and everyone is welcome, then it would be great to have it at the South Wharf / Melbourne Exhibition Center. A positive agenda rather than a bitching one.
I'm all about promoting the hobby and preserving pinball - so I DO want to see an Expo. But key people would need to be involved, and most of them are in the industry, rather than the hobby.
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Hotrods, Cars or Arcade stuff. Gameroom equipment - Neon signs, Mini Bar, Movie posters - Stuff like that.
I always thought that a "presence" at a Car show would always work.
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People wulling to do the work
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What is the aim of the show?
Is it to sell containers of machines, or a celibration of all things arcade?
Are you trying to make money, or do yoy simply wabt ti cover costs and donate tbe rest to charity?
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Geelong
Keep dealers away
Parts sellers anrd resoration services are welcome, but containers of 'projects ' not welcome
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Funny – I was only last night discussing this topic with a mate on the phone.
I said ‘our hobby’ should have jumped into bed with Comic Con – a show currently touring Oz and show that has a MASSIVE following overseas.
Apparently this is Australia’s first year of Comicon ( or a down sized version of it )
These guys get 10,000++ heads through the door to look at comics, characters and quirky stuff FFS.
SURELY an area of that show could be allocated to also display pinball machines – it kinda fits with the theming and you get 10,000 instant spectators/ attendees.
I doubt that games themselves would sell at ANY Expo/ venue to be honest, but it shouldn’t be about that – it should be about highlighting ( reminding ) the general public of this great game and would be a PERFECT marketing opportunity for sellers to ‘prospect’ for potential future sales and new customers from the massive crowds that attend a show like Comic Con ( or similar if any shows out there ).
Apart from small $ items I don’t think that ANY business goes into a ‘show’ expecting to close a stack of sales – they use the shows to attract new customers and promote thier business/ product.
I think some of the Commercial guys and also guys on the ‘fringe’ of being commercial in our hobby should take some time and contact the Comic Con organisers and see if they are running it again in 2013 and GET IN ON IT.
Shared advertising, shared costs all mean it is a cheaper option than running a SOLO pinball show AND the crowds are already WAY bigger and that’s WITHOUT having pinball for Comic Con to promote as part of the attraction. What a GREAT way to get pinball into the eyes of THOUSANDS. Even if there was only around 30-50 games there to start with IT WILL GET PEOPLE TALKING and see if it can grow from there in the years ahead.
Time has proven that this hobby in Australia is truly incapable of organising its own professional event properly - I think that 2009 was a GREAT effort but has proven impossible to replicate on a better/ larger scale - the talk is ALWAYS there in this hobby – the real action just isn’t , and its dragging on WAY too long.
Here is an avenue WELL worth investigating I reckon.
If nothing changes – then nothing changes.
DISCUSS.
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I always thought that a "presence" at a Car show would always work.
That is a good idea, could set up an area when the hot rod show is in town, a lot of the people into older cars would also find some nostalgia in playing the pins
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I reckon Wotto's idea is brilliant!
Everything he says makes a lot of sense to me.
Comic-con even comes to remote outposts (Perth)
The car show idea could also be very good, as most guys into pinball like their cars too.
I suppose it's largely a matter of overcoming the usual inertia and rivalry among the commercial dudes.
Overseas they "get it on" repeatedly - why not here?
#@# #@#
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I agree with Wotto, we need to start somewhere and realistically we need to piggy back with something else to reduce costs and improve exposure. Things like comicon have a wide demographic of people enjoying from young to old and based on some comments from some of spooky's podcasts they said the two have worked well together - exposing lots of potential people to the hobby.
AMD could use it to expose any new pinballs relating to comics especially if there is to be a X-men or Avengers game - reckon there sales would be easily boosted.
Some game owners could setup there superman's, batman's etc
Then parts suppliers could get on the wagon and promote parts etc and maybe even JJP with a few woz's. Then set up a tournament for playing at night for the keen.
like Wotto says - let's discuss
In addition - I know this will spark some negative stuff but it could be more successful with involving Aussie Arcade for improved numbers, donated playing machines etc. Cast the bitching aside and maybe have AA v's AP tournament *%*
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Forget the ‘bitchy’ aspect.
Don’t worry about that – the WHOLE hobby can contribute, be you black , yellow, AA associated, AP associated , brindle, short , tall – it DOESNT MATTER.
What I personally DONT think should ever happen at ANY event is for EITHER FORUM to have ANY direct involvement ( as in any control ) in a show – a show needs to be as independent as possible and ALL about the game of pinball. Once new people get drawn to the game and potentially become new owners/ members of our games community then THEY can then discover for themselves the forums and the on-going back up assistance available at either place or other places.
Forums don’t need to part of the exhibition – games do.
Enthusiastic people that can promote the games and the enjoyment they bring need to be involved and the games can do all the talking.
A general competition however ( no AA Vs AP stuff ) could be a great part of the show, to show Joe Public that there is more to the game these days than just bashing a ball around for the heck of it.
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I also agree with Wotto. Comic con is a ready made vehicle, for pinball to hitch a ride would be smart move. One issue to consider though would be that Comic con moves around the country to various citys. Would pinball come to? I'm only new to the hobby and most of you guys would know better than me but I would have thought the likes of Stern and others investing in pinball would love the exposure and possibly help pinball tour the country.
Another great thing about getting involved with Comic con is they've done it all before so theres lots of opportunity to look over shoulders and learn how to get a show right. I'd also be interested to know if pinball has been involved with Comic con else where in the world. If so were manufacuters and developers involved?
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Forget the ‘bitchy’ aspect.
Don’t worry about that – the WHOLE hobby can contribute, be you black , yellow, AA associated, AP associated , brindle, short , tall – it DOESNT MATTER.
What I personally DONT think should ever happen at ANY event is for EITHER FORUM to have ANY direct involvement ( as in any control ) in a show – a show needs to be as independent as possible and ALL about the game of pinball. Once new people get drawn to the game and potentially become new owners/ members of our games community then THEY can then discover for themselves the forums and the on-going back up assistance available at either place or other places.
Forums don’t need to part of the exhibition – games do.
Enthusiastic people that can promote the games and the enjoyment they bring need to be involved and the games can do all the talking.
A general competition however ( no AA Vs AP stuff ) could be a great part of the show, to show Joe Public that there is more to the game these days than just bashing a ball around for the heck of it.
Amen to that *%*
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Have it in WA as people think we are all rich due to the mining boom !^!
You will have no dramas with politics and you may even capture some of the Africa / South East Asia market ??
I doubt it will happen , but , at least I will put in for poor old Perth .
Will it be affected by carbon tax / mining tax and another 25% increase in power ? PROBABLY ^&(
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With out voting for your home town, if we were to have a pinball show in 2013, we would have to be a little strategic to get maximum support as well as be affordable for most to visit.
eg if it was in Sydney we could maybe get support from AMD, where as I know if a location like Newcastle was on the cards rent for a location would be cheaper but visitor numbers would be less.
Now time like the present to get people motivated and you never know.
Cast your votes
Why wouldn't you vote for your home town ^&^
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I'd also be interested to know if pinball has been involved with Comic con else where in the world. If so were manufacuters and developers involved?
It would appear so ..... #@#
http://www.pinballnews.com/news/comic-con.html
And just LOOK at the damn crowd NUMBERS :D @@* :D
As I stated earlier - shows are all about product awareness and marketing
The pinball theme is here at CC too -
http://n4g.com/news/811451/comic-con-2011-marvel-pinball-games-coming-to-ps-vita-nintendo-3ds-and-wiiu
Sure it AINT real pinball but it shows "the pinball theme" as popular and at least pinball has a 'presence' at Comic Con.
I have no doubt that future Aussie Comic Con organisers MAY be interested in at least discussing some pinball area's at future events - and it appears that Swinks idea to have Comic themed games there was also adopted by Stern at the time.
Crowd shot 2009 &&
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm24/wotto40/PPMimage.jpg)
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Arrrrr bugger it.
I just wrote off to the International Comic Con guys asking some general questions about pinball at Comic Con, the future ( if returning ) of Comic Con in Australia etc.
I hope that I will get some initial answers - and Cavey , if it seems positive I will ask about the 'display only Vs Sales rules.
Will keep you all posted.
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Swinksy is 100 percent correct. U would have to get AMD involved etc, with new machine sales, so Sydney or Newcastle would be the go, but Sydney definately first choice.
Melbourne would work if everyone put business first instead of personal gripes, but will it ever happen ? nope ! lol
WA is also a very smart idea because of the mining boom and people over there have heaps of money, so thats a great idea, if not the best idea if u get NIB Stern pinballs in attendance. ^^^
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TOP IDEA Wotto ! well done on some pro-active ideas and work. The hobby and Industry needs more people like that 4 sure. Swinksy is right up there as well with a always positive outlook. ^^^
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Good on you Wotto ^^^, no harm in asking those questions and at least you (we) will be more knowledgeable.
Cavey, some valid points but you have to start somewhere, I was reading from Wotto's link the first Comic Con started in 1970 with just 300 visitors. I definitely would travel to Gold Coast, Melbourne, Adelaide to check out a expo with pinball just to support the guys pushing it.
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The AP vs AA thing is a reality unfortunately, because it is still pathetic that grown men of 40 yrs of age, wont attend each others events usually. The damage has been done, the rudeness u cop up here when u say u are on AP is amazing.
Sorry, I do not see it (not in the last 12 months or so)
I know some people are out there trying to 'ignite a flame war', but most members are just happy to post on the forum that appeals to them
I agree with you Pete, I entered a tournament with yes a small one but with 5 of the 8 guys AA guys in it and they know that I visit there site from time to time and obviously they visit AP as they all knew my logo (as I do not show it there). As well the guys from Pinball n Pizza welcome me in for games in their establishment and asked about the comp just last night when I went there for games and pizza. We also are starting to have some of the long time members from AA become members with us and sharing interesting stuff as well. Best way to move on is be one community.
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Ive done a few trade shows over the years.. set up stalls etc. Many of the car stalls have absolutely nothing for sale.. but will take orders.
A proper trade show is not a cheap place to have your profile presented.. it is friggin expensive... minimum charge per power point etc. The guys i used to do this with dont do it anymore as the $$$'s were just not there and dwindled away... many car companies refused to display as they were just not getting the return.
I dont see any reason why it couldnt be piggy backed with something like Comicon, but price per stall would determine any success.
So what would you have???
Pinball Rescue maybe selling plastics,
Me with stencils and neon etc
A few spare parts stalls
Restored games for sale
Possible new pins on offer.
It doesnt matter about the forum thing.. AA..AP.. whatever. What does matter though is that whoever is there to organise/ invite for stalls should be impartial. The attempt last time to make expo a 1 forum event was pathetic and its this sort of pettiness that kills the community. People need to get over personal issues and stop behaving like little spoilt children.
You either have both forums profiled or none at all.. its simple.
I only care about someones character and some have displayed a character that is far short of reasonable
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Best way to move on is be one community.
Touche` and Halleee bloody luyah to that *)*
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As much as having Stern would be a good idea, really they only have a couple of models to show, and what about the rest?
The hobby side is dominated more by the older games, restoration and repair. I suspect that accounts for as much as 80% or more of the hobby.
Parts, dealers and games are more plentiful in Melbourne, so politics aside, it probably is the more realistic venue.
I'd prefer it in QLD so I could justify a holiday!
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QLD, sunny one day, beautiful the next ! (that was the old slogan)
QLD, sunny one day, FLOODED the next ! (that was last 6 months slogan)
QLD, sunny one day, COMPLETELY LABOUR FREE GOVERNMENT TODAY, and the next ! (current slogan) (wooo hooo)
An expo anywhere would be fun ! I agree Nick, older stuff is 90 percent of the hobby, we just need the right venue with the right rules to get a big whack of DMD machines in plus SS and EM etc. Melbourne would work best for that style expo for sure with ALL the Melbourne dealers, professionals in attendance.
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With out voting for your home town, if we were to have a pinball show in 2013, we would have to be a little strategic to get maximum support as well as be affordable for most to visit.
eg if it was in Sydney we could maybe get support from AMD, where as I know if a location like Newcastle was on the cards rent for a location would be cheaper but visitor numbers would be less.
Now time like the present to get people motivated and you never know.
Cast your votes
Why wouldn't you vote for your home town ^&^
Entertainment Centre costs etc would be reasonable here but we have no parts suppliers, no major pinball supplies other than AMD 150km away and for a pinball show to be effective it needs two main things. One being people to bring pinballs for play / display and we then need members / pinball community to visit which would mean alot would have to travel which is inevitable no matter where it is in Aus. Don't get me wrong I love Newy and could see some huge benefits, traffic isn't a problem but I personally think Sydney, Surfers / Brisbane or Melbourne are the best suited because of a good tourism base as well as good member base and some pinball suppliers and I would not hesitate travelling to any of those places.
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I think , for reasons I will never understand , that there are too many egos in this hobby so dealers and forums would need to be left out of any expo .
I also think 'expo' is probably the wrong name to call it.
I am amazed that in the states , UK (and who knows where else) these pinball shows and yet it never happens here (ok once ) .
Great idea to tag onto something like Comicon as it would be a great fit .
Unfortunately I have no idea how these things are organised , nor how it would work .
Sorry I can't be more helpful but I sure hope a Pinball Show eventuates soon .
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DESIRE PASSION MONEY to share the great hobby of Pinball. and apx 50 to 80 pinball machines to take along wouldnt hurt either.lol
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Should the 3 ( or 2 ) threads currently running on this topic be somehow combined !@#
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I agree as I was trying to be specific hence voting. My mistake for three threads. I will message the guys.
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Three topics merged as requested - might be a little hard to make sense of, but there are three things being discussed - where to have one, what's it take to organise, and what could it be combined with.
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I know that the expo that did happen wasnt cheap... venue was expensive, insurance was also right up there and then there was some $20,000 spent on advertising it... radio, posters etc.
In all honesty, i think making anything like this happen in Aus is fraught with hurdles due to the amount of red tape that we have to wade through to do anything... if you got each visitor to sign a personal waiver before entering it could simplify things but personal liability, fire, electrical test and tag make it all a bit of a mine field. from memory, the power supply at the 09 venue wasnt big enough... all these things cost $$$'s
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I know that the expo that did happen wasnt cheap... venue was expensive, insurance was also right up there and then there was some $20,000 spent on advertising it... radio, posters etc.
In all honesty, i think making anything like this happen in Aus is fraught with hurdles due to the amount of red tape that we have to wade through to do anything... if you got each visitor to sign a personal waiver before entering it could simplify things but personal liability, fire, electrical test and tag make it all a bit of a mine field. from memory, the power supply at the 09 venue wasnt big enough... all these things cost $$$'s
And THATS a massive part of why I was initially thinking it would be worth investigating 'hooking onto' a show like Comic Con ( or similar ) - THEY would have 90% of all the red tape well and truly covered and ( I imagine ) give you guidelines to 'run your section' by ( I am GUESSING this !@# )
THEY have to have the insurances, hall hire, advertising, ticketing etc ALL done anyway - pinball just 'becomes' a part of it.
I think they also have those shows in massive mainstream event centres where power would not even be an issue as well *!@
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Wotto for President!
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For the AA v AP thing to be non existant, the mods from both AP and AA need to get along really really well, and to my knowledge, they wont even talk. If things were to change, it would be good for all peoples to attend a pinball expo type event. Maybe the competition of having a AA desk and a AP desk at the last expo was a good idea, but ultimately, it may have caused more competition, which is probably not a great idea given the history ?
Funny, I don't remember seeing an AA desk at the last Expo? I can assure you there was an AP desk.
Members from both forums supported the last Expo with their attendance. I only had one person display any animosity (and maybe that is too strong a word) to AP. All the other AA people were great. Pinball was the winner...
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Still on the pinball show subject to get better numbers should the show be combined with other shows to get better exposure and better numbers?
I think it'd be a good idea to either combine with another show or have a focus more than 'just pinball'. Of the three shows that I attend every year (chi pinball expo, midwest gaming classic, pinball at the zoo), MGC has the most foot traffic by far, followed by expo.
The problem is that if you have too focused of a show, you'll only attract the zealots. Zealots are all good and well, but for every zealot of X there are ten guys who like X AND Y, and if a show hits both focuses then he's more than twice as likely to attend.
Also, if possible try and include / invent some kid-focused activities. That way parents can tempt/bribe their kids into going who would otherwise be indifferent... "Hey Jimmy, I know you don't care about pinball, but Mario, Luigi, AND Charizard will be there!" In other words, if you turn it around from 'drag my kids with' to 'keeping my kids on a leash so they don't beat me there', you'll get a much higher buy-in from those with kids.
Having never organised a show nor been to one for that matter, what does it take to organise show?
First thing is to find a venue. Obviously if you're hooking up with another show then you're all set, but if you're striking out on your own then I'd say look further afield than just hotels and convention centers. Your show is going to be small the first year (or first few years), so you need to 'live small'. In other words, keep a strong eye on expenses so you don't go broke. The example I like to use is the ohio pinball show -- it takes place inside an abandoned supermarket. And thinking about it, that makes a TON of sense -- they already have gobs of power running all over the place for the refrigerators and such, plus it's typically a very large undivided space. And since it's currently unused, renting the place out for a month doesn't cost a whole lot.
The downside is that you then have to double-down on driving traffic to the show, since random foot traffic is almost nonexistent. But you were planning on blitzing the local media anyway, right? RIGHT? && Yes it won't be glamorous, but with any luck you'll have enough to 'roll over' into the next year's show. (Honestly, you won't have much, and forget entirely about donating what's left over to charity -- you'll make more of your time just volunteering to paint houses!)
Finally (and possibly the biggest thing, in my opinion) is having it be a team effort and never forgetting that without everyone pulling their weight, the show doesn't happen. Yes you always need a guy (or three) to be the head guy and spur things along. But there is also a TON of grunt work involved packing, moving, setting up, maintaining, then breaking down and moving machines again.
For example, pinball expo 2001 was a turning point in that show. That was a year after WMS shut down, and the show SUCKED OUT LOUD. Hardly any games on the show floor, and it was obvious to many that if the local collectors didn't step up that the show would die (and sooner rather than later). That was when a lot of local collectors (myself included) started regularly bringing their machines to expo. Either be part of the solution or it'll go away, and I certainly didn't want pinball expo to die! So breaking down a few machines once a year and transporting them across town seems like relatively small potatoes to make sure that the show keeps going.
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Thanks for your insight TheKorn2, much appreciated.
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Threads merged and tidied up. Please keep the discussion on topic.
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For the AA v AP thing to be non existant, the mods from both AP and AA need to get along really really well, and to my knowledge, they wont even talk. If things were to change, it would be good for all peoples to attend a pinball expo type event. Maybe the competition of having a AA desk and a AP desk at the last expo was a good idea, but ultimately, it may have caused more competition, which is probably not a great idea given the history ?
Funny, I don't remember seeing an AA desk at the last Expo? I can assure you there was an AP desk.
Members from both forums supported the last Expo with their attendance. I only had one person display any animosity (and maybe that is too strong a word) to AP. All the other AA people were great. Pinball was the winner...
I can assure you that both forums were invited to have a stall for expo 09... only AP accepted. On the other hand certain people from AA planned to sell pins outside the venue in an attempt to sabotage it because for one reason or another, they didnt want it to happen.....roll on a year and AP are not invited but only AA were to have a stall mainly due to the agenda of one certain person.. this is not malicious talk on my behalf but is fact.
This is why any pinball show would only be successful if the organisers were impartial to both forums as suggested earlier.
I know... its all VERY silly.. but it is what it is
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I think it's important that a clear scope is out lined in order to move forward. For example what are we looking to get out of having an expo? Is the expo just for new machines or do we want old machines as well? Are these then for sale? Will there be a comp?
Also how is this to be financed? Are commercial pinball suppliers invited to take part? Can it happen with out there investment.
Of course opportunitys need to be explored and comic con has potential to be a great fit so great job Watto getting the ball rolling on that one .
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I would envisage collectors bringing machines as the bulk of what is on show, and inviting local pinball businesses to participate as well.
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If a booth or a commercial center is so expensive, why have it at an inner city venue?
Local councils have large halls/venues
I remeber in years goneby going to model railway expos in Camberwell and Box Hill.
Large places
Or even a convention center that is part of a Motel complex, I know of a large modern place up the road from work that we would have trouble filling with machines
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If you want to start small and build then a suburban venue such as those suggested must be affordable and also supply a reasonable amount of power.
Then again, Wotto's idea of tagging along with a bigger exhibition may have legs as well.
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If you want to start small and build then a suburban venue such as those suggested must be affordable and also supply a reasonable amount of power
Thats exactly what expo '09 tried to do... seem to remember criticism from all sides regarding the venue !@#
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But our ain is different
Wr are trying to reminf people that pinball still exists, 09 was tryning to ofload a container of crap
If we tie ourselves to another event, we will hsve a small cornrr and hsve yo play by their rules
Having a sysnd alone event will give us more flexability
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For the AA v AP thing to be non existant, the mods from both AP and AA need to get along really really well, and to my knowledge, they wont even talk. If things were to change, it would be good for all peoples to attend a pinball expo type event. Maybe the competition of having a AA desk and a AP desk at the last expo was a good idea, but ultimately, it may have caused more competition, which is probably not a great idea given the history ?
Funny, I don't remember seeing an AA desk at the last Expo? I can assure you there was an AP desk.
Members from both forums supported the last Expo with their attendance. I only had one person display any animosity (and maybe that is too strong a word) to AP. All the other AA people were great. Pinball was the winner...
I can assure you that both forums were invited to have a stall for expo 09... only AP accepted. On the other hand certain people from AA planned to sell pins outside the venue in an attempt to sabotage it because for one reason or another, they didnt want it to happen.....roll on a year and AP are not invited but only AA were to have a stall mainly due to the agenda of one certain person.. this is not malicious talk on my behalf but is fact.
This is why any pinball show would only be successful if the organisers were impartial to both forums as suggested earlier.
I know... its all VERY silly.. but it is what it is
100% Correct. Expo 2010 - I was hoping to bring along at least one restored game for people to play before the event became overrun with agendas. Sad really.
However, I agree 100% that an Expo must not allow interference from Forums or Dealers. All should be invited. The Expo should be central around promoting pinball. After all, most of the bigger collectors I know don't participate in forums, or buy parts locally. But they would enjoy a room full of pins and each other's company.
With the hobby growing so fast, and the influx of newbies on the scene, politics should be left to the nuff nuffs in Canberra.
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My 2c worth.....
If anything is going to happen, the organiser/s need to decide whether they want to cater to the existing collector/hobbyist or target new people and try to expand the hobby.
For the existing collector, somewhere regional e.g Albury would be worth considering. Venue hire would be cheaper, there is ample accomodation around town, direct flights into Albury from Sydney and Melbourne with either REX, Qantas or Virgin Blue and it is roughly half way by road between Sydney and Melbourne. Somewhere like the Kinross Woolshed for example would be ideal. They hold major concerts there so power would not be an issue, the have food and grog and plenty of room. Attendees can make a weekend of it like many car clubs do that hold meets in and around Albury.
If you want to try to reach out to as many people as possible then it has to be in a capital city, preferrably Melbourne to try to encourage the various parts suppliers and retailers to attend. They won't attend if it is too far away. It is simply not worth their time to rent a truck, load it up, travel to the venue and cart it all back again. As has been said, the organiser/s MUST be impartial and offer the same options to each and every retailer. No restrictions on what they can and can't sell at the venue as was the case in '09. Easiest way would be to charge them by the square metre for floor space. Although AMD is not in Melbourne, they do have distributor/s that can fly the flag on their behalf I'm sure.
A way to possibly raise funds to hold the event as opposed to holding an auction may be to raffle a machine or two??????
Anything is possible with some $$$ behind you but more importantly the passion, co-operation and understanding that you simply won't be able to please every person no matter what you do and how hard you try. Anyone that has a crack at doing something like this should be applauded and assisted in any way possible.
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Wr are trying to reminf people that pinball still exists, 09 was tryning to ofload a container of crap
Very harsh indeed. I travelled from Adelaide for this event and would not hesitate to go every year, even if it was the same format and at the same location.
Unsure how you think something like this would have been paid for back then when you have a pinball community so divided you can't get dealers and parts suppliers in the same room for the good of pinball.
It was great in the US seeing Marcos, Illinois Pinball, Cliffy, Bay Area Amusements all next to each other at Pacific Pinball Expo.
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Heres what Practicalsteve from pinside had to say as I started a thread there as these guys are experienced in enjoying and running these type of shows.
"The best shows I have been to have these elements:
1. Either just pinball or pinball mixed with arcade, I like both, really just depends what you can get in there. Lots of shows offer free admission if collectors bring in one of their own machines to play.
2. Tournaments, can be laid back and casual or as in depth and long as you want to make them.
3. Vendors or a swap meet flea market- lots of shows have either a flea market in the parking lot were people can sell old machines, or parts vendors inside, I usually pick up a lot of parts at shows.
4. raffles or giveaways- you may be able to get some of the big names like stern to offer a prize you can raffle off for free publicity. some shows will have old or even new machines they raffle off, you just make the ticket x amount of dollars and sell only as many tickets as needed to make up the cost of the machine, most shows that have this sell out of all the tickets quickly and the cost is made up.
5. guest speakers or how to clinics or a history lesson. If you could get someone big in the pinball world to give a talk that would be great. Anyone that knows a lot about repairs could give a how to clinic, or if you have someone who is knowledgable they could give a walkthough and give a history of the machines.
As far as forum conflict I have never experienced that.
You could hold it at a hotel convention center, some kind of show hall, any place you could rent with a lot of power for all those pins."
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Well guys .....Comic Con in The States wrote back to say they knew nothing of an Australian version of their 'brand'
^&^ OMG why don't people ever do the right thing ^&^
So, regardless I found the site for Oz Comic Con Adelaide and Melbourne shows ( currently running here ) and have emailed them asking if they plan to run future shows in Oz and their interest levels in pinball's as part of future shows ( however if you refer to my 1st sentence they may get SHUT FRICKIN DOWN by the 'real' Comic Con guys due to using their name &^&)
See what happens next.
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The way to go is to form a committee of dedicated like-minded people from both forums with the drive and time to make a Pinball Expo happen. The exact legal structure would be best left to more instructed minds but I imagine an incorporated not-for-profit organisation could be the way to go.
The committee needs to be entrepreneurial enough and inspiring enough to find the money to underwrite the event, build a website, organise people to bring machines, organise techs for the event, organise raffles and so on.
Start small and build. Don't need a lot of dollars for advertising for the first one, just get people from both forums to attend and get them to advertise to their friends and a bit of paid web advertising could help. Send press releases to various media, maybe you will get a few bites. If you can get some TV coverage at the event all the better for next time. Maybe someone knows people in the industry?
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The way to go is to form a committee of dedicated like-minded people from both forums with the drive and time to make a Pinball Expo happen. The exact legal structure would be best left to more instructed minds but I imagine an incorporated not-for-profit organisation could be the way to go.
The committee needs to be entrepreneurial enough and inspiring enough to find the money to underwrite the event, build a website, organise people to bring machines, organise techs for the event, organise raffles and so on.
Start small and build. Don't need a lot of dollars for advertising for the first one, just get people from both forums to attend and get them to advertise to their friends and a bit of paid web advertising could help. Send press releases to various media, maybe you will get a few bites. If you can get some TV coverage at the event all the better for next time. Maybe someone knows people in the industry?
Sorry AJ - not being a smart ar$e but that's GOT to be a gee up - right?
Nearly 100% of what you suggested has been attempted with APA , nearly word for word 'business plan' even down to having the legal side of things covered and a website, being a non profit organisation etc ......and it is just floundering as a committee
I apologise if it ISNT a gee up and you were unaware of APA but mate - that aint ever gunna happen in the NEAR future IMO #@#
Hence the opening / contributions to discussions for 'other ideas'
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We gotta get away from this whole forum thing. It has been and continues to be the downfall of any plans to hold some type of expo. the only thing to worry about here is 1 - assembling a group or committee to run the thing fairly without bias or favour 2 - can the event be funded 3 - can the event find a suitable location 4 - can a reasonable number of machines be supplied to play, buy or even just look at, if it means 30 or 40 machines or not even that then so be it, aim for more the next year.
Impartial organiser/s who offer the same packages (i.e floor space and costs) to anyone in the pinball industry or anyone interested and drop the entire forum V forum thing. We know that just ain't gonna work. The aim should be to simply promote and enjoy pinball, not promote this forum or that forum.
End of the day, I don't think it would really matter where on the East coast an event took place. Guys in the hobby will travel for something worthwhile.
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I am very green but very keen
What about a decent hotel with a large function room/s (like what the guys in the US are doing) or a leagues club that gets plenty of people in the door on weekends to add to the extra exposure - they wouldn't have alot during the week so loading in and out could occur before and after. Find one / few that would have an appropriate space and ask when there quiet times are through the year and at least the costs should be less than a entertainment centre / large function halls etc. Aim for Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane but more the out skirts eg in Sydney out west Penrith, south Cronulla, north Charswood but still in range for accommodation on site and close by. Also another place could be a large school hall in the middle of a holiday break, money raised through entry fees and comp fees is donated to the school. Major cost is probably insurance.
Have a show for mainly pinballs but also open to other arcade including pin-mame to aid in getting numbers.
Aim for 50 + machines, with AMD, RTBB and any other parts suppliers, Norbet from AMD could run a maintenance class, talk about how to become a operator, Ant68 could get Jack over *.*, stall showing how to pimp out a machine, another stall showing a awesome restore by say el timbo, the guys organising the show promote it on the forums but everyone agrees to not have any forum stands just a simple advertising banner at the show to avoid devision as it lets people coming decide - as we are all pinball enthusiasts (all on level ground). If people ask you have the choice just to say you are a collector and nothing more.
Have a EM section (15), SS section (15), DMD section (20) then a few new sterns. Machines brought in by pinball guys supporting the event, and other members bring in so 60 in 1 cocktail tables and collector cabinets.
No auctions, but maybe allow the guys that how a machine on show that is playable over the weekend to be available for sale as the new owner could give it a good session.
As a extra touch make a brochure that lists all the places to buy pinballs and parts (detailing the guys that want to pay a small fee for the exposure) and the do's and don'ts in buying a pinball for the newbie to aid to first experience being a good experience. This brochure is issued with the entry ticket. The fees for the brochure cover cost of printing but also contribute to the show costs.
Friday arvo / night setup and test and people contributing have a night playing pinball.
Saturday day / night, visit, check out the machines and play , meet people, kids comp in the morning, night comp that could be recognised by papa.
Sunday day,visit, check out the machines and play , meet people and a after party
Contact a mobile coffee van, snack truck, fund raising groups that hang out at Bunnings to supply sausage sandwiches, Mr Whippy ice cream vans etc (if at a school) so no cost to the event but feeds everyone and maybe they offer up a fee to the school for the positive of getting constant business for 2 full days.
Entry - Saturday fee higher than the Sunday as a bigger day
Comp fee - pay at the time and slightly cheaper if prior to the event
Promotion - AMD, AA, AP, Facebook, radio stations, tv, council, schools
Repairs - get a few people to lock in on a morning or arvo towards servicing assistance
Surely there is a electrician amongst us that can aid in tag testing.
2 Biggest Challenges - getting people to lock in pinballs for the show, getting peoples awareness to come to the show. I sure there are many other things but somethings don't have to be so complex, more raised as a barrier not to do something.
I know that I have zero experience and probably missed on many things but wouldn't it be great.
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Over a year ago, I found a government owned building which would be absolutely perfect for a Pinball Expo. I even went as far as organising/gaining permission to hold a Pinball Expo if I wanted, with minimal cost. (lets say close to being next to nothing).
The building would hold around 100 or more pinballs, has ALL the facilities u would need, incl toilets, full canteen/food services etc etc etc. I could hold a pinball expo there anytime since i know the councillor, local police chief etc etc very well. (I did all their security Alarms/Cameras etc etc).
BUT i only own 35 ish machines, and u need triple that for a whiz bang Expo. There are very little AP members in QLD, and the AA fellas up here are large in numbers, who could make up the numbers etc. BUT, would the AA guys work from a MOD level down to do something with AP people.?
I have never asked because of 2 reasons, 1. the level of forums working together has never been huge in the past, and 2. all the AP members are all way down south, in Sydo and Melbourne.
If I made a HUGE effort to make something work, take all my machines which is a good start etc, invited other industry people etc, it just seems it is all too far for the people I would want to make all the effort for, all the AP people who live too far away.
And if I did try to do something, some people would say he is being a wanker with a big head who is trying to do something etc, so u can see why I havent tried before really. But the effort I would make so to speak, wouldnt be for me, it would be fopr pinball and for AP people etc.
For it to work, I would want a sitdown with the a AA mod representing that forum, and a AP mod representing AP, AT THE SAME TIME.lol but would that happen ? and would it just be too far for all AP people who are way down south ? thats why i never really tried, and would probably just put it in the too hard to do basket.
Mate...mate... mate...sigh....
What the frig are you on about?? Rocks in the head or just not thinking.
OK... so you got a lot of DMD... ive got a lot of 30's, 50's, 60's 70's machines... i also know of other people who would be willing to contribute games, inc some EM " oddities" that show the developement of games from all eras.
Can get plenty of different games mate.... and would do it gladly
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OK - I'll say it again.. Dealers and Forums should NOT have an influence over the organization or running of a Pinball Expo. Whether it is AP, AA, Arcade80s, Pinside or RGP - The focus should always be on PINBALL - NOT forums !
The hobby is MUCH BIGGER than any forum or dealer. Yes, Expo 2009 was successful in some areas, but it was not due to a dealer, or a forum. We were merely contributors. There was FAR MORE interest in Coconut Island and the Dinner than the auction.
The success of any Expo will be the collective ideas from hobbyists, collectors and industry people. But not all these people are part of forums or dealerships.
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I sold some.. still have 20+ machines here.
What about the idea of an organiser who is a member of both forums. I am a member of both but cant be arsed posting the same thing on 2 forums.. if i were to do a restore thread for both id never get anything else done!
There are quite a few members who are active on both... it could be done with such a member.
It is after all about pinball and BOTH forums cater for this.
Forums are really a small part of this hobby.. most of the stencils i sell are non forum people.. this hobby is so much bigger than any forum
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A few good points Gav. ^^^ One thing about your last comment, the hobby is bigger than just the forums, yes, But I havent seen anyone outside of a forum try n organise a pinball expo in the last 3 plus years.
Is there such a person who loves pinball and has as much passion as a forum member. I think AP and AA shld have a world record recorded by The Guiness Book of Records for being the best n most loyal pinball people on the planet. !
Something else i thought about, I dont think machines shld be for sale at a expo, unless its a NIB Stern. There shouldnt be competition inside a expo unless its a pinball competition i believe. Or the first thing that happens when people see price tags on 2nd hand pinballs is "rip off" ""so and so charges too much, its not shopped properly etc etc". A brochure representing a business etc is enough, no more machine sales at a expo would be my ruling UNLESS it was a for sale only sticker, with price on application after the Expo, by calling XYZ seller. Parts yes, etc etc. NIB yes, 2nd hand, some strict rules. Displays, pinny tournaments etc, part sales, resto services etc, all welcome, all fun stuff.
Everyone shld keep discussing ideas, it certainly all helps.
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I believe that it is possible to make this happen, but want is needed is for a group of people who live in the same place, to be able to get together around a kitchen table, and work out a plan that suits them
Trying to do this on a forum, it is hard to get around the ‘white noise’ that discussions seem to generate on-line
You would need to have in this group, people who can see ‘big picture’ (Retropin, Cavey, Nick). People who run their own business and are used to solving (or know how to find those who can) big problems
This is not to say other peoples input is unnecessary, but experience will make the project go smoother
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A few good points Gav. ^^^ One thing about your last comment, the hobby is bigger than just the forums, yes, But I havent seen anyone outside of a forum try n organise a pinball expo in the last 3 plus years.
Is there such a person who loves pinball and has as much passion as a forum member. I think AP and AA shld have a world record recorded by The Guiness Book of Records for being the best n most loyal pinball people on the planet. !
Something else i thought about, I dont think machines shld be for sale at a expo, unless its a NIB Stern. There shouldnt be competition inside a expo unless its a pinball competition i believe. Or the first thing that happens when people see price tags on 2nd hand pinballs is "rip off" ""so and so charges too much, its not shopped properly etc etc". A brochure representing a business etc is enough, no more machine sales at a expo would be my ruling UNLESS it was a for sale only sticker, with price on application after the Expo, by calling XYZ seller. Parts yes, etc etc. NIB yes, 2nd hand, some strict rules. Displays, pinny tournaments etc, part sales, resto services etc, all welcome, all fun stuff.
Everyone shld keep discussing ideas, it certainly all helps.
Having machines for sale will get people through the door and maybe raise the bar for some retailers to actually do the right thing by their machines and their customers. It is the "perceived" favouritism e.g. only AMD can sell machines that will see anything like this fail again. Surely there must be some lessons learnt from 2009. Why would any other retailer bother attending if they can't have their items on the floor and ready to sell. You need to strike whilst the iron is hot, people from interstate or that have travelled a distance to get there won't come back next week to buy a machine.
Also remember, this whole thing needs to be funded somehow, charge per square metre, the more machines there for sale the bigger the space needed and in turn it generates income for the event.
This is merely only a thread on a forum and we can already see the difficulties involved.
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This is merely only a thread on a forum and we can already see the difficulties involved.
So true and such a shame . Maybe a way forward is to get in contact with the organisers of some of the shows in the US and see if they would be willing to advise on how they make it happen over there .
I have no idea but can't imagine why US and Aus would be that different in terms of red tape etc.
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I reckon now's the right time pinballs growing again with WOZ coming out and AC/DC also coming very soon what a showcase to the new pinball people both have appeal WOZ with the LCD screen and AC/DC well who hasn't heard of them? If I win Tatts I'll do one but I doubt I'll win tatts ^.^
Peter
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A few good points Gav. ^^^ One thing about your last comment, the hobby is bigger than just the forums, yes, But I havent seen anyone outside of a forum try n organise a pinball expo in the last 3 plus years.
Is there such a person who loves pinball and has as much passion as a forum member.
Michael Shalhoub organized the 2009 Expo. He does not frequent forums. He never has, and he never will. Of all the people who know the industry and hobby, he is the right man for the job. He knows all the big collectors who are also not on forums.
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A few good points Gav. ^^^ One thing about your last comment, the hobby is bigger than just the forums, yes, But I havent seen anyone outside of a forum try n organise a pinball expo in the last 3 plus years.
Is there such a person who loves pinball and has as much passion as a forum member.
Michael Shalhoub organized the 2009 Expo. He does not frequent forums. He never has, and he never will. Of all the people who know the industry and hobby, he is the right man for the job. He knows all the big collectors who are also not on forums.
He also covered his costs with the so called " container sale".. and i think at this point i might clear some stuff up.
Expo "09 barely covered its costs... it really was a fine line... no one is going to do this if its just a big financial sink hole.
The auction at "09 was meant to be a NO RESERVE.. yes it was a bit of a storage shed clear out, but each game was meant to be sold at whatever price it found.
" Other" people were then allowed to enter games into the auction... this was a bad move as suddenly BALLY ROLLING STONES were being sold off, very badly restored... STAR TREK with an overlay... again a piss poor restore... all these had a reserve on them and a hefty one at that... it was a blatent ripp off and money grab by one party ( whos name will not be mentioned).
Mike Shalhoub had many games for sale.... not one of these had a reserve... to the side were GENCO GYPSY FORTUNE TELLERS... restored $12K... unrestored $8K. These were one off items to be sold... which the restored one did... Mike also had a stall of EM parts... whole trays of NOS coils being sold for $25... original schematics - $5... GTB bumper assemblies NOS - $.50.
Try getting those prices ANYWHERE
Im afraid in the end Mike doing a few well known collectors a favour bit him on the arse.. he wasnt happy about it i assure you, but typical Mike " what do you do about it... its done.. so what do you do?"
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Michael Shalhoub EXPOsed a large lot of fairly average container pins in 2009. As Strangeways said, he has the contacts and certainly could organise a real Expo I suspect.
Nug and I worked nights for two weeks to finish Coconut Island, then drove all Friday night to Sydney, set it up, and had a great time meeting a bunch of people. Quite a few AA guys came over for a chat, was nice to meet a few. One or two made a special effort to avoid coming near the Coconut Island area as it also was the AP area, that's OK too. Nug and I had a fun moment cornering one of them and saying hello, all in good fun.
Strangeways has already cleaned this thread up, removing some of the Forum v Forum rubbish. Those of you with an agenda on that topic, just drop it. Seriously. I cannot be bothered reading posts about it, and to this point have not bothered to comment either.
It is absolute BS to attribute the potential success or failure of a possible Expo to anything to do with forums. It is highly unlikely a forum based Expo would amount to much, because there is no commercial benefit potential (as AP is not a commercial venture). Expos are a commercial venture, hence why the MS 2009 had some success – while it was mainly a sale of a bunch of container pins, it also brought together some other industry participants sort of like an Expo, and there were as Gav said quite a few hard to get bits and pieces. When or if a commercial interest decides that an Expo will potentially have a profit result (perhaps not the event itself, but ongoing to the sponsors of it), we might see one, and hopefully representatives of both forums will participate and contribute to the Expo experience, just as AP did in 2009, at considerable personal cost to some members.
AP is a place for collectors, hobbyists and restorers, good times, and a dose of BS from most of us from time to time. Have fun and enjoy it here. There are members of both forums here - great, each offers a different member experience. I read and contribute elsewhere too. But it is not a commercial venture, would not be able to profit from an Expo, so could not afford to create one. But we certainly would contribute if asked.
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Cavey, I would attend the expo that you describe
I would bring two games for the general public to play for free
But I would not drive out of Victoria
I would allow parts vendors
I would allow those bringing games to have them for sale (if they wish)
It seems that this is how the US expos run
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Thankyou Pete. The USA model works in the USA and wont work here cause they all get along over their and work together as a industry, that model would need everyone over here on the same page, so I thought of a idea that bypasses having to make everyone get along, by removing the dis-agreeing parties and coming up with a idea which allows a expo to work, with the focus on the people who do get along, ALL the players, hence the ""What about a expo I described with 100 plus machines. A players expo"".
Heres a point I want to ask about with sellers. The moment you have people selling a machine/or machines, it turns into a place for every dodgy bastard to bring machines to sell. I DONT WANT A 4 SALE EXPO. A players expo. Then some people want some dealers to attend and not others. POLITICS POLITICS POLITICS. If it games to play only, its a players expo. Parts for sale, also has similar issues, some sellers attend, but not if so and so attends, then that seller gets all his mates n friends to boycott it etc. More polotics.
If its a players only expo, no one can whinge complain, hijack the thing. A very very simple expo, just machines to play, just machines to see, just people to talk with, just fun, and NO business. Thats the expo that this fractured industry could agree on, and its all about the players, and the pinny owner, not about politics, who's prices are too high, who came n who didnt because one seller doesnt like another seller. JUST MACHINES TO PLAY AND PEOPLE TO MEET WITH. SIMPLE ! People could fly to QLD for around $199 return, so no car is required, just a cheap motel once here for a fri/sat night.
***The same thing could happen in Melb, if u guys got a cheap council building, got together and had 100 machines in the local large community centre etc, these simple ideas could work and be very effective. Takes all the politics out of it. I reckon people shld consider the focus on a Players Expo, without all the stuff people will never agree on. Food for thought. !
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Re things for sale
I see your point, but whrn you go to there, you may as well just have a meet and invite a few non pinheads alonng
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To me, an expo with just machines to play is simply a meet or get together.
As others have said, in order to appeal to the general public there will need to be machines/parts/mods for sale. Also would be great to have some speakers on repairs/mods/history/how to find bargains etc.
If i was to attend (which i would be reasonably keen to), i would love to stock up on some parts, have a look at some stalls where guys like Homepin have some of their replacement boards setup, have a look at some LED mods people are selling, and hopefully walk away with a few bits and pieces.
I reckon a competition is also essential to get more people interested - i have been to meets before with comps and it is a great way to get together for a bit of friendly competitiveness.
I also think machines need to be for sale - and so what if some people have elevated prices. At the end of the day, no-one is obliged to buy anything - charge the sellers a small percentage of the advertised for sale price if it sells. If there are a few sellers, it won't take a genius to work out who has good deals and who doesn't.
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anything to do with selling involves all the industry, and since most cant agree on what time of day it is, that sort of expo , at this stage, would be doomed to failure, if it wasnt, it would have happened in the last 3 years etc. and then we have the over inflated prices, bodgy machines, people fleecing the public with junk, not a great way to showcase a pinny expo. thats why i called my idea a players expo. and didnt call it a for sale expo.
we can buy pins off ebay, each other, and thru dealers 365 days a year, why stuff up a decent pinball showing with money and greed. ?
ahh it doesnt matter. but it was worth a try.lol maybe expo is the wrong word then. maybe "huge get together" might be next years post topic.lol
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Michael Shalhoub EXPOsed a large lot of fairly average container pins in 2009. As Strangeways said, he has the contacts and certainly could organise a real Expo I suspect.
Nug and I worked nights for two weeks to finish Coconut Island, then drove all Friday night to Sydney, set it up, and had a great time meeting a bunch of people. Quite a few AA guys came over for a chat, was nice to meet a few. One or two made a special effort to avoid coming near the Coconut Island area as it also was the AP area, that's OK too. Nug and I had a fun moment cornering one of them and saying hello, all in good fun.
Strangeways has already cleaned this thread up, removing some of the Forum v Forum rubbish. Those of you with an agenda on that topic, just drop it. Seriously. I cannot be bothered reading posts about it, and to this point have not bothered to comment either.
It is absolute BS to attribute the potential success or failure of a possible Expo to anything to do with forums. It is highly unlikely a forum based Expo would amount to much, because there is no commercial benefit potential (as AP is not a commercial venture). Expos are a commercial venture, hence why the MS 2009 had some success – while it was mainly a sale of a bunch of container pins, it also brought together some other industry participants sort of like an Expo, and there were as Gav said quite a few hard to get bits and pieces. When or if a commercial interest decides that an Expo will potentially have a profit result (perhaps not the event itself, but ongoing to the sponsors of it), we might see one, and hopefully representatives of both forums will participate and contribute to the Expo experience, just as AP did in 2009, at considerable personal cost to some members.
AP is a place for collectors, hobbyists and restorers, good times, and a dose of BS from most of us from time to time. Have fun and enjoy it here. There are members of both forums here - great, each offers a different member experience. I read and contribute elsewhere too. But it is not a commercial venture, would not be able to profit from an Expo, so could not afford to create one. But we certainly would contribute if asked.
Exactly right Nick - Well said.
This is the key for me - " It is absolute BS to attribute the potential success or failure of a possible Expo to anything to do with forums ".
I've cleaned up the thread (again), and please keep the thread on topic.
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It's sad that an expo probally would never get off the ground in Australia as someone else said there's a few big egos around which spoil it for all, hey Brett have an expo at your place I'm in :)
Peter
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Thanks Pete, but a decent expo needs more than just me. I will have a home meet/pinny bash with trophies n prizes again, sooner or later.
I am not sure that its ego's that will stop a expo going ahead, its just that everyone has a different idea on how to run one, where to run one, and why to run one. A bit of ego and self confidence is what makes the world go round and creates healthy competition. I think in Australia, people often confuse self confidence and positivity with having a swelled head. In the USA, if someone says they want to buy a Ferrari, people usually say "how can i help", thats been my experience on my visits. In Australia if people say the same thing u get called a wanker.lol Different mentality here.
Sooner or later a pinny expo/huge pinball get together, what ever you want to call it will go ahead. I just hope when it does, the bloke who organises it doesnt get called a wanker, but has more people saying "how can i help". Theres no perfect model to have one, just people with passion for this great hobby and all the top blokes in it. ^^^
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Forgive my silence with this discussion and based on the number of views this is a topic of interest for alot of people.
I did raise the discussion to learn alot more about it as I was not aware of so much. Alot of people have mentioned alot of very valid points, but it would be sad to just leave it there and give up. Maybe the pinball show or expo is not the right direction at this early stage but still think doing something in the public eye would be great to enhance and strengthen pinball.
Another thing that could be considered, as for a show it seems the money required is huge. Now this is a little outside the box and could have a few problems but could be awesome.
What if in Newcastle, Sydney, The Brisbane, Melbourne is imagine if money could be raised for a property lease for pinballs - small rental shed in a semi industrial area near a public transport access, arcade machines for a member drop in anytime where members store a machine there and then the facility has a charged entry fee ($5 per person) for free play for non member families on weekends / holiday periods etc , have a projector and big screen for xbox game offs for kids parties and footy nights on the big screen and pinballs / arcade machines in same area. Rent out for mens club nights and xmas parties to the public ect at like $25 a head (25 people xmas party quickly earns = $625 for one night). Like a pinball "mens club" - with a small restore room out the back as am sure alot of us are running out of room at home. Members volunteer on a roster system to open the facility for the love of it and keep an eye out for the machines.
Imagine $300 per week that fits 40 machines so $7.50 per machine to cover the rent - so if you had 2 machines that's $15 per week). Then with any money raised from a comp, mens night, buck show, xmas party - that money first pays the electricity, contents insurance and public liability. Left over money could go towards a mini shop to purchase parts for pinballs that members buy at cost when they need them) and memorabilia and t-shirts and from those sales and any profit after any shows goes into a kitty for a quiet period that goes back to the people that have sited machines there. This kity could be tracked so if any member leaves with their machines they get there percentage.
This way a member with a sited machine they get free entry at any time maybe with one guest for free to play any of the 40 machines any day of the week except for a organised event, then on public access days have a roster system for members to be there to help with explaining games, chatting and promoting, fixing or turning machines off for a period until owner can fix.
I want to get a few more machines but have no room this way I could store a machine there and happily pay $15 a week for 2 machines and after a little while you may get some payment back.
We may even get some government as we could be giving a fun place for kids to visit instead of hanging on the streets.....????
With this we could then have comps and meets very easily with a visitor machine stall for comps etc. Imagine having 40 machines publicly accessible weekly for all to enjoy. Then if you travelled to Sydney and the Gong you could do the same.
Maybe it's a outside the box idea that could work.....thoughts
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Its a great idea Swinksy and I have been looking at trying to do something similar on the Gold Coast over the last 12 months but local councils are VERY against a pinny parlour/arcade centre and for some reason alot of the older people sitting on the yes or no committees always think an arcade will bring bunchs of bad kids doing bad things etc, and you have to get council feasability studies done etc etc, and so on, plus the public liability etc is huge. The only way to get around it, is that u have to state that it is not open to the general public, at all, and that its a private collection, only open to private members, but there are still many hoops to jump over. Perhaps your area will be different. ? Its worth checking out.
I do know, that local council buildings, that do allow public access, and short term rentals for 2 and 3 day events, like community halls etc, usually already have government and public liability already paid for and set up and u are generally covered by their insurances, thats what i have found in QLD.
I am not sure how your idea can work with a government provided building cause they only usually give a 2 to 4 day permit, but its still worth checking out, cause the private option is way expensive, but i see where u are going wioth it, its like a pinball co-operative, which sounds like a good idea if u can find the right premises. ^^^
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Ok Adelaide guys - step up if you wish #@#
Below is the reply I got (the enthusiastic reply #*# #*# ) from the Oz Comic Con staff.
So I am not sure – who in Adelaide would take up this cause but its a golden opportunity for next year.
Maybe someone in Adelaide now talk to the AMD distributor there and pursue this if interested.
Hi Wotto,
Thank you for your interest we are mostly certainly returning to Adelaide with OZ Comic-Con on the first weekend in March 2013. We would love to have both a pinball display and interactive area perhaps a tournament could be arranged. Please let me know some further details and I am sure we can include the pinball machines in the event.
Cheers
Carissa Avenhouse
Oz Comic-Con
www.ozcomiccon.com
+61 (0) 2987 47171
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Ok Adelaide guys - step up if you wish #@#
Below is the reply I got (the enthusiastic reply #*# #*# ) from the Oz Comic Con staff.
So I am not sure – who in Adelaide would take up this cause but its a golden opportunity for next year.
Maybe someone in Adelaide now talk to the AMD distributor there and pursue this if interested.
Hi Wotto,
Thank you for your interest we are mostly certainly returning to Adelaide with OZ Comic-Con on the first weekend in March 2013. We would love to have both a pinball display and interactive area perhaps a tournament could be arranged. Please let me know some further details and I am sure we can include the pinball machines in the event.
Cheers
Carissa Avenhouse
Oz Comic-Con
www.ozcomiccon.com
+61 (0) 2987 47171
Awesome work Wotto $#$ #*# $#$
Common SA Guys, surely a IronMan, Superman, Batman, amongst a few could be gathered together and lock in. Organise a comp and then a heap of pinheads to gather together for a pinball comp. $#$
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I did post on this thread last night, but my finger brushed nthe DELETE key and all was lost!
Anyway, given this new information, ill post again but a revised edition.
I was talking via email to a pinpal in USA who oddly enough asked what pin shows in OZ i was going to this year.... had to laugh as there isnt a single thing!!!
In USA.. looming is the renamed ALLENTOWN show.. this is really a collectors and dealers free market where spares, parts, old machines etc can be bought. I would dearly love to go to this show as games on offer is amazing for someone like me who likes predominately EM games.
Then we have PIN A GO GO..... a show primarily run by collectors who bring games to be played and shown off. Prizes are awarded for best restore... best playing... best original etc. My friend was off to his lock up to pull out some pins, tune them up and drive several hundred miles to the show.
Then of course there is Pacific Show etc... more mainstream and much more commercial.
Each of the above shows is based on a very different format... each started out very small and just grew on its own merit... each is well attended.
My point with all this is that it doesnt matter what format a pinball show/ expo would take.. all that matters is that we have SOMETHING! My feelings are that if 2 people fund an Expo on their own by putting their hands directly into their own pockets and then wish to sell a container of pins at the end to cover costs.. then that is their business and they can dictate what they like and its really not up to any of us to criticise. Expo 09 was a screaming success... the hall was packed and obviously not large enough.
Were we to have a piggy back show with COMICON.. then please GO FOR IT! Personally, i will drive 2 1950's or 60's machines down for punters to play... no fee etc, just very happy to contribute.
If someone wants to hire a commercial shed and have a pay to enter meeting where all and sundry are invited ( a show in a shed really)... then please GO FOR IT... again.. i will donate 2 pins for the show.
My friends in USA are willing to drive hundreds of miles to meet fellow pinheads/ talk pinball/ swap/ buy parts/ donate machines etc... i wish we had the same attitude here.
If someone wants to organise a show... then my question is... what do you want me to do to help make it happen?
Anything is better than nothing....
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Good on you Retro #*# thats the spirit
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I echo Gav's thoughts and I'd be happy to donate restored 70s or 80s games for the event. Sounds promising.
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I 100% agree Gav . ^^^ Depending on where this happened I would also be happy to bring a couple of EM's along .
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Well there you go... in a couple of short hours we have proven that a show of any kind could go ahead as us collectors are willing to donate a few machines each... its all possible and all so very positive.
COMICON have given the green flag.
I can get to Adelaide with a hire truck... Cavey and i could fill it with donated pins.. i could even throw in some signage for the building, banners, prints etc.
Now then... whos willing to liase with Comicon.... OR who has access to a large venue where we could pull it all together elsewhere?
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Theres alot of collectors in Adelaide with some decent collections. SA is a bit far for me and my machines. I am keen but that distance/cost is a killer.QLD is on the map for me and any help i could give. I could move a collection a few hours, but past that would be too risky since these machines owe me a mint $. Surely the Adelaide guys could take advantage of Comicon over there !
Does anyone know if Comicon is coming to QLD or have they already been. I am also researching again the Gold Coast car n 4 wheel drive shows, the Boat n Jetski shows etc, and hoping that If I can get some new AC/DC pins along to it (my PRO plus maybe a Premium) thats the way in to getting past having brand new available stock to represent new machine sales.
Lotto tonight lads, only 15 million $$dollars, everyone cross ya fingers, would love to win it for everyone (everyone gets a new Stern for Xmas). ^^^
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Common SA Guys, surely a IronMan, Superman, Batman, amongst a few could be gathered together and lock in. Organise a comp and then a heap of pinheads to gather together for a pinball comp. $#$
Hey, who are you calling common, Novocastrian? <.>
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The way to go is to form a committee of dedicated like-minded people from both forums with the drive and time to make a Pinball Expo happen. The exact legal structure would be best left to more instructed minds but I imagine an incorporated not-for-profit organisation could be the way to go.
The committee needs to be entrepreneurial enough and inspiring enough to find the money to underwrite the event, build a website, organise people to bring machines, organise techs for the event, organise raffles and so on.
Start small and build. Don't need a lot of dollars for advertising for the first one, just get people from both forums to attend and get them to advertise to their friends and a bit of paid web advertising could help. Send press releases to various media, maybe you will get a few bites. If you can get some TV coverage at the event all the better for next time. Maybe someone knows people in the industry?
Sorry AJ - not being a smart ar$e but that's GOT to be a gee up - right?
Nearly 100% of what you suggested has been attempted with APA , nearly word for word 'business plan' even down to having the legal side of things covered and a website, being a non profit organisation etc ......and it is just floundering as a committee
I apologise if it ISNT a gee up and you were unaware of APA but mate - that aint ever gunna happen in the NEAR future IMO #@#
Hence the opening / contributions to discussions for 'other ideas'
That is quite funny as I had forgotten all about APA - you just made me go and look them up.
You're not on the APA committee by any chance?
You need the right people on a committee who are ALL dedicated to getting things done and not just talking about it. A well functioning committee can really achieve things quickly and get things off the ground if everyone commits to doing their bit and actually follows through.
To me it sounds like Michael and Rian got burnt the first time around, as the prices the machines went for were pretty much only average, and from memory the machines that did have reserves on them were passed in anyway. There was a lot of flak about having an auction at the Expo and maybe this has dissuaded them from running a second Expo.
Even though the idea isn't working in one instance, doesn't mean it may not work in another.
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Theres alot of collectors in Adelaide with some decent collections. SA is a bit far for me and my machines. I am keen but that distance/cost is a killer.QLD is on the map for me and any help i could give. I could move a collection a few hours, but past that would be too risky since these machines owe me a mint $. Surely the Adelaide guys could take advantage of Comicon over there !
Does anyone know if Comicon is coming to QLD or have they already been. I am also researching again the Gold Coast car n 4 wheel drive shows, the Boat n Jetski shows etc, and hoping that If I can get some new AC/DC pins along to it (my PRO plus maybe a Premium) thats the way in to getting past having brand new available stock to represent new machine sales.
Lotto tonight lads, only 15 million $$dollars, everyone cross ya fingers, would love to win it for everyone (everyone gets a new Stern for Xmas). ^^^
Cmon Cavey,
No need to bring em all mate.. just a couple.
Me you - road trip 6 pins in the back.. would be a blast!
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You need the right people on a committee who are ALL dedicated to getting things done and not just talking about it. A well functioning committee can really achieve things quickly and get things off the ground if everyone commits to doing their bit and actually follows through.
This is where the problem lies. They need to follow through, rather than just talking about it. As Wotto mentioned, there was a lot of work done by a couple of committee members, and the rest sat on their hands. Sleeves need to be rolled up and a plan drawn up.
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Since it is Adelaide, and there are many collectors in both Adelaide and Melbourne, it shld be no problem for someone down that way to organise something with their machines. ** Obviously no one would expect people from the furthest possible location QLD to committ to a Adelaide event when there are so many people nearby who could do it at a third of the cost and time, than people like us who are 35 plus hours away.
Gav, I would prefer to take 40 machines somewhere in QLD than a few machines on such a HUGE travel. It would be fun, but it doesnt make sense when there are so many machines in Melb/Adelaide. Would I fly to it with you, yes, no problem, that would be great fun mate. When it comes to a QLD event, I will be there in 100 percent support with everything I have, plus more.
**If the Melbourne guys want to organise something with the Adelaide guys, it would be a great idea for Comicon. Someone down that way needs to put their hand up sooner than later and be committe chief, and get a few fellow AP people involved who want to contribute.
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Someone down that way needs to put their hand up sooner than later and be committe chief, and get a few fellow AP people involved who want to contribute.
Yeah – look , I think that’s the key at this very early stage.
A couple of Adelaide guys need to contact the lady at Comic Con and just find out EXACTLY what is involved in getting involved.
Who knows – she might say “yeah its $5000.00 to become part of it” and then there goes that idea / then again she may say its free for exhibitors – who knows.
Make a call – get a stack of information from her and then make some decisions.
But if someone just steps up and starts investigating this with her then it could/ might happen and at least the hobby would know where it stands in relation to this ‘angle’.
If successful , then this can roll on and potentially develop ( over time ) into other Comic Con shows and become a model for future events ( possibly )
Then again it could flounder and fail dismally – but we will never know unless someone has a crack at it.
My own initial thoughts are that I would think that a commercial guy needs to head this up ( a Stern distributor or a large re-seller of games in Adelaide? ) as they have something to gain from it and once the ‘what can be done at the show’ is established then get just a few hobbyists / collectors involved to take a few games, get some marketing stuff sorted out and sort out how the 2 days would run. I imagine that a big aim of what drives us to want to present ‘our game’ back to the public is the great feeling and youthful memories the game re-connects us to and we want others to experience that too , so I think to have a few games from each era to capture the attention of older guys and leading up to a display of the newer titles to ‘blow people away’ with what a pinball machine is capable of these days is the way to present the ‘display’. Have a few keen pinball people to discuss this with the ‘punters’ and build enthusiasm about pinball at the show. Yes – on top of this a comp could be held as well so that people can see another aspect of this hobby. On top of this you have your main guys ( the distributor/seller ) with his set up with games available for sale and all of his promotional material to provide to possible future game owners. I also think that the idea of having the comic/ super hero game titles as already mentioned in this thread is a fantastic idea and would command INSTANT attention from many of the show attendees that probably have no idea these games/ titles even exist.
If this was Sydney based I would make the calls for sure.
However I don’t want to involve myself at that level for other States.
Without sounding arrogant I will say that I think I have opened a small door for us - but seeing as this is 15 hours away from me that’s where I will leave it at this stage and hope that someone in the hobby picks this up.