Author Topic: Down down, prices are down...  (Read 7848 times)

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Offline Retropin

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2013, 01:06:36 PM »
The Aussie dollar will not get worse this next 2 years minimum, if anything, the aussie dollar will get back to the $1.12 to $1.15 it was and could even get better against the greenback USA currency. It certainly wont stay anything near parity over the next 2 years. This means AMD will buy new Sterns at a good rate, so prices shld not go up in Australia if things are calculated fairly by Aus importers

Oh they are calculated alright.. not sure its fairly though as ACDC would have been bought at around the $1.10 mark and yet Australia still had to pay way more than US counterparts for the title.
Im afraid that any benefit of our dollar will not reflect the prices from the dealers, it will instead line their pockets further

Offline pinnies4me

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2013, 01:09:53 PM »

Two more years of parity ? That would be great, but it won't last forever. Now is the time to be buying NIB, so if anyone sits on the fence too long, they will miss out.


Tend to agree. I think I read that the target exchange rate is 75 cents to the greenback - eventually (barring any further calamity) the government will push the currency back to that target. I guess it is designed to promote export over import (not sure we make much these days though, except big holes in WA).
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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2013, 01:13:38 PM »

It has been a buyer's market for between 3-4 years now. With late model Sterns starting to appear on container supplier's lists, it won't be long before we have even more used late model Sterns. Yes - AC/DC is starting to appear in euro containers. Not a reflection on the game, it is simply that our market is thriving. Two more years of parity ? That would be great, but it won't last forever. Now is the time to be buying NIB, so if anyone sits on the fence too long, they will miss out.

I agree Nino.
I think the last 3 or so years have been a buyers market but more so for the older games, because newer Sterns were still holding really high prices.
I think the next 2 years will be the absolute best time for people to pick up near new HUO sterns because soo many people have bought them very well for around the $6,000 to $6600 levels. It just seems of late, some people are just fire selling their new Sterns for crazily low prices.
But generally, i reckon it will get worse before it gets better until we have an election in Australia cause no one in business has confidence in the current government. I am hoping this string of really low prices for 2nd hand, 6 and 12 month old Sterns doesnt become a normal thing, but with the economy being so flat, it wouldnt surprise me if we keep seeing really low second hand prices across the Stern and JJP titles.

I have a prediction about the 2nd hand prices for the WOZ, and it aint good, I reckon there will be a glut of them on the market within 3 to 6 months tops, all from people wanting to get some money back, because bills become tight. It wont be because the game is a dud, but like we are seeing with LE models, some people just want out, and if it means taking a loss, then so be it.
A great time to buy near new machines, and its only going to get better for buyers, and worse for sellers IMO.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 01:15:22 PM by Caveoftreasures »
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Offline pinnies4me

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2013, 01:42:57 PM »

Attack from Mars has no lower playfield, is that a stipped down pinball machine as well. ?


Sure, if the originally envisioned AFM with the moving ship was produced as well as the version we all know, then yes, the AFM in existence would have been a stripped down one I guess.

Gottlieb did some stripping down way back (where are they now?) with Black Hole for example - but they didn't remove the lower playfield. They changed the head box to remove the spinning disk and the sound board to a cheaper one. That was done for export markets where the dollar was making the games expensive. Game play was the same, cosmetic and audio changes were made for cost cutting.

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Offline oldskool1969

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2013, 02:01:35 PM »
The Aussie dollar will not get worse this next 2 years minimum, if anything, the aussie dollar will get back to the $1.12 to $1.15 it was and could even get better against the greenback USA currency. It

Phew that's a big call.
Europe/America will continue to deteriorate, demand on China/Asia will fall followed by no more new holes in our great land as demand for resources, except oil will decline. Then construction here will almost come to a stand still. GFC on a larger scale all over again.
MAYBE !

Natural or man made disaster of EPIC proportions. It is said this improves the global economy, to an extent it does but too many variables to predict.
Very Possible !

I predict we will be hit the hardest if such a hiccup occurs as we contribute bugger all to a global economy and rely too much on our mining/natural resources boom.
Unfortunately all other countries are buying up our land on a MASSIVE scale and farming them to feed their country. Luxury items like pinball machines etc. will dramatically drop in price.
Just like we are buying all these luxury items very cheaply from around the world now. This very sheltered insanity we live WILL end, not if but just a case of when?

I say if you want it and can afford it - BUY IT and enjoy  *%* we are a long time dead and we put too much emphasise on money it means SFA in the long run.
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Offline Wotto

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2013, 02:48:25 PM »

What's a "half a pin" please explain??

Peter



These stripped down versions -  Fine if there are some "toys" missing (non gameplay things), but this one with the whole lower playfield omitted is a big difference.
.
The lower pf on acdc is the exact reason i would only ever buy the pro
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Offline pinnies4me

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2013, 02:53:45 PM »

The lower pf on acdc is the exact reason i would only ever buy the pro


And I'd probably agree with you on that one. I would rather Stern spend the time it spends creating different models within the same game on one overall better product. I see there current strategy of price differentiation as trying to milk sales at every price point.
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2013, 03:05:26 PM »

The lower pf on acdc is the exact reason i would only ever buy the pro


And I'd probably agree with you on that one. I would rather Stern spend the time it spends creating different models within the same game on one overall better product. I see there current strategy of price differentiation as trying to milk sales at every price point.

+1

Pro model is really only for operators. From what I can see, Operators don't really give a damn anymore. Stern should drop Pros all together and consistently release entry level as Premiums at a similar price of Pros. LE for collectors - after all "LE" = "Limited Edition". I can already see the Pros are dragging down the resale prices of Premiums.

Speculating about WOZ's resale is a bit rich. Those that have ordered can pull out at any time to sort out those "unforeseen bills". Stern collectors will have the same problem. All the WOZ orders that have been cancelled have been snapped up very quickly. WOZ's will have a much higher resale value because it is JJP pinball's FIRST pinball released.

The fact that LE's sell so well is because they are FULL pinball machines, not the half pinballs that Pros are. If stern want to stay competitive, they need to take notice of the amount of Pros that don't keep their value. After all, they should be gearing up to sell more into the home (even Gary Stern admitted this fact).
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Offline Retropin

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2013, 03:11:23 PM »

The lower pf on acdc is the exact reason i would only ever buy the pro


And I'd probably agree with you on that one. I would rather Stern spend the time it spends creating different models within the same game on one overall better product. I see there current strategy of price differentiation as trying to milk sales at every price point.

You can already pull out of ever owning your long awaited WOZ LE and make a tidy profit... few people waving above purchase price to secure FURTHER machines

+1

Pro model is really only for operators. From what I can see, Operators don't really give a damn anymore. Stern should drop Pros all together and consistently release entry level as Premiums at a similar price of Pros. LE for collectors - after all "LE" = "Limited Edition". I can already see the Pros are dragging down the resale prices of Premiums.

Speculating about WOZ's resale is a bit rich. Those that have ordered can pull out at any time to sort out those "unforeseen bills". Stern collectors will have the same problem. All the WOZ orders that have been cancelled have been snapped up very quickly. WOZ's will have a much higher resale value because it is JJP pinball's FIRST pinball released.

The fact that LE's sell so well is because they are FULL pinball machines, not the half pinballs that Pros are. If stern want to stay competitive, they need to take notice of the amount of Pros that don't keep their value. After all, they should be gearing up to sell more into the home (even Gary Stern admitted this fact).

Offline GORGAR 1

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2013, 03:15:36 PM »

What's a "half a pin" please explain??

Peter



These stripped down versions -  Fine if there are some "toys" missing (non gameplay things), but this one with the whole lower playfield omitted is a big difference.
.
The lower pf on acdc is the exact reason i would only ever buy the pro

Have you ever played a premium? I mean played it not one or two games?

Peter

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2013, 05:31:46 PM »
A few points.

*USA Economy*
The only reason our aussie dollar shld stay strong over the next 2 yrs IMO, compared to the USA greenback, is that we are in less crap than our American counterparts, and Australia has always to a degree been financially isolated compared to most others cause we are linked to the Asian markets more, and Asia is still doing well compared to the USA. America has some massive financial hurdles to overcome this next 2 years with masive budget cuts introduced under current law, and many states are bankrupt or on the verge. The USA has had it tough the last 2 years, but if u watch all the USA economic channels, they are going to have it tougher the next 24 months than before, hence my belief the aussie dollar will stay strong, if not get better against the USA dollar. If that means we get BNIB Sterns for great prices, then thats OK.

*Stern*
IMO, there is no such thing as a Stern Pro half a pinball. The Pro model is exceptionally popular, and outsells the Premium and LE models about 4 or 5 to 1. The Pro model isnt made just for operators anymore either, that was 5 years ago. More home buyers buy Pros than operators according to stern, espescially in Australia.
The Stern Pro models today are just as good, and well equipped as any std body pinball made ever. The popularity of BNIB Stern models today is booming.
Also, operators who buy the Pro, do care, because its many thousands of dollars no matter who u are, and operators dont throw away money.
The Pro is the best value for money, bang for your buck, pinball machine today, which is why so many are sold worldwide, incl Australia.

This belief that Stern shld concentrate on only one model is very old thinking and would be disastrous marketing. Its like saying Toyota shld only sell 1 or 2 models. If you said that to their marketing dept they would chuckle. Choice equals more customers. The car industry and the pinball industry both cater to buyers who want choice, and lots of choices. One machine only would lose Stern a massive amount of sales.
Look at JJP, spend 10 grand or get nothing. I chose nothing. If they said spend $6600 and get a WOPZ std body, I would have said take my money. One model is a loser, not a winner.   And JJP could still build a quality Pro model and keep its quality n still sell for a lower amount if a std body was introduced. If Stern can do it, anyone can, and thats the point. JJP selling LE only, is like Stern selling LE only. Say goodbye to all the Pro and Premium sales. Thats a disaster of marketing to me.

Stern is on a winner having various models up for sale. Why, cause they all sell, and sell out usually when it comes to the LE models. Stacks of people buy Pro models, and Premiums also sell very well. This marketing stradegy works. Stern buyers are mostly a very happy bunch. And the only unhappy people are people are not Stern buyers.

Back to pricing, and prices being down down down etc, I reckon the Stern prices for 2nd hand brand new HUO machines will stay higher than JJPs one only model. Why, cause there are only a certain amount of say AC/DC Pros, Premiums and LE models in the country. Pro rata, that means less of each model available for resale, and low numbers of machines for resale equals higher prices. But JJP's Woz, every man n his dog will have one soon, and that means there wil be more to hit the 2nd hand market, which will drive prices down compared to a Stern IMO.
If the JJP plays fast, resale values will stay acceptable, but if its slowwwww, like some keep saying, the prices for the 2nd hand market will drop like a lead balloon. I hope they dont, time will tell.
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Offline Retropin

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2013, 05:48:22 PM »
OK... not for the first time youve lost me in your way of thinking... i know none of what you have said is fact.. its all opinion but mate... im not sure it makes sense at all.

This belief that Stern shld concentrate on only one model is very old thinking and would be disastrous marketing. Its like saying Toyota shld only sell 1 or 2 models. If you said that to their marketing dept they would chuckle. Choice equals more customers. The car industry and the pinball industry both cater to buyers who want choice, and lots of choices. One machine only would lose Stern a massive amount of sales.
Look at JJP, spend 10 grand or get nothing. I chose nothing. If they said spend $6600 and get a WOPZ std body, I would have said take my money. One model is a loser, not a winner.   And JJP could still build a quality Pro model and keep its quality n still sell for a lower amount if a std body was introduced. If Stern can do it, anyone can, and thats the point. JJP selling LE only, is like Stern selling LE only. Say goodbye to all the Pro and Premium sales. Thats a disaster of marketing to me


So here you are saying that the 3 model system is a winner by STERN as all sell and having 1 model is a disaster for sales?.... 10K for a pin will lose sales and you give yousrself as an example?..
1 model is a disaster of marketing that means less sales yes?


Back to pricing, and prices being down down down etc, I reckon the Stern prices for 2nd hand brand new HUO machines will stay higher than JJPs one only model. Why, cause there are only a certain amount of say AC/DC Pros, Premiums and LE models in the country. Pro rata, that means less of each model available for resale, and low numbers of machines for resale equals higher prices. But JJP's Woz, every man n his dog will have one soon, and that means there wil be more to hit the 2nd hand market, which will drive prices down compared to a Stern IMO

Now you are saying that there will be a flood of WOZ??... meaning LOTS sold despite a disastrous marketing system, high price and single model platform?

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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2013, 06:02:02 PM »
Its pretty basic Gav, the more u charge, the less people you capture for a product.

How many people didnt buy the WOZ because it was 10 grand ? Lots here in Australia, and I believe lots worldwide. They sold 1,000 only.
Perhaps they could have sold 3 times or 5 times that if they catered to the $6600 Pro market etc as well.
Many AP members have said they dont feel comfortable spending 10 grand on a pinny, regardless of the title and maker.
You are an example Gav, u often say u wouldnt pay $6600 or $10,000 for a new pinny. Well, what about the hundreds who are happy to spend $6600, but no more. JJP;s marketing stradegy of one very expensive model only, has lost alot of the mid range buyers. Stern caters for them, and sells heaps because of it.  JJP could do the same.

One model, one price, thats very limiting....... its just like Holden selling one car only compared to say Ford selling several models. Its not hard to work out who will sell the most cars.
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Offline delarge

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2013, 06:43:50 PM »
Yeah, I agree. At my current stage in life, I don't see the sense in buying a $10,000 pinball machine, but I do like it. If JJP made a $6000 base model, it would be in the realm of possibility. I sometimes think even $6000 is madness! haha.

Same goes for the 3 model system. Choice. Buyers like choice. I like to have a choice. I think Stern's 3 model system works for me. One model is a limiting factor for me personally if I can't afford it or don't see the value in buying it. I'm happy buying my Pro models. That's just one man's opinion though.

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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Down down, prices are down...
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2013, 06:44:14 PM »
Its pretty basic Gav, the more u charge, the less people you capture for a product.

How many people didnt buy the WOZ because it was 10 grand ? Lots here in Australia, and I believe lots worldwide. They sold 1,000 only.
Perhaps they could have sold 3 times or 5 times that if they catered to the $6600 Pro market etc as well.
Many AP members have said they dont feel comfortable spending 10 grand on a pinny, regardless of the title and maker.
You are an example Gav, u often say u wouldnt pay $6600 or $10,000 for a new pinny. Well, what about the hundreds who are happy to spend $6600, but no more. JJP;s marketing stradegy of one very expensive model only, has lost alot of the mid range buyers. Stern caters for them, and sells heaps because of it.  JJP could do the same.

One model, one price, thats very limiting....... its just like Holden selling one car only compared to say Ford selling several models. Its not hard to work out who will sell the most cars.

Completely misleading. Can you find me the link that states WOZ is $10,000 ?

Not my opinion, but here are the facts - http://www.pinballsales.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=97&idcategory=2

AC/DC Premium, here's the link - http://www.pinballsandgames.com/pinballs-new-stern.html

$5 difference and one is a widebody. Again, "apples for apples" - Stern and JJP see the home market as Premium model.

Your claim of "how many people didn't buy WOZ because it was $10,000" is flawed. Simply because WOZ costs $7000.

One model, one price. This worked for 40 years.
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