Author Topic: Why were pin prices so high in 2008?  (Read 1739 times)

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Offline andypinboy

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Why were pin prices so high in 2008?
« on: July 06, 2015, 04:20:19 PM »
I've read quite a number of AP posts that mention pin prices in 2008 being high, & some go as far as saying that buyers can't really hope to recover what they paid in 2008. I only started collecting pins this year (I only have 3  !!!) & 2015 seems another year of high prices. Three questions:
1. is it true 2008 was a year of high prices?;
2. if so have prices (generally) now surpassed 2008 levels;
3. if so why was 2008 a "peak"? Was it before container pins began coming into Oz in a bigger way?

It'a really interesting market & there's no doubt pins are enjoying a bit of a golden run - it seems now more people have (or want) a pin at home then a pool table.
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Offline Pop Bumper Pete

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Re: Why were pin prices so high in 2008?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2015, 04:27:59 PM »
We always complain that prices are high

but it does depend on the exchange rate
if the Aussie $ was weak compared to the US$ then prices would have been high


EDIT
after a little look around
2008 was the year that Stern came out with IJ4
this was sold NIB for about $6500, the cheapest a NIB had been in years
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 04:31:32 PM by Pop Bumper Pete »

Offline Cow Corner

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Re: Why were pin prices so high in 2008?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 05:08:15 PM »
2008 was not as bad as today.
Pin prices are crazy high these days.
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Offline andypinboy

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Re: Why were pin prices so high in 2008?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 06:05:12 PM »
It's sounding a bit like 2008 wasn't all that bad. I was speculating that euro containers started to come in at volume around 2008 so I wondered if before this there was plenty of demand, prices up, then as containers rolled in prices came back down. Then containers all but stopped, interest in pins continued & we are where we are now - high prices again. Oh well, my speculation on what happened sounds off the mark  !!@
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Offline Brunswick Brawler

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Re: Why were pin prices so high in 2008?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 07:00:40 PM »
$6,500 for a pro in 2008 would seem expensive in 2012 where an ACDC Pro was just under $6,000.

2012 was a low point in prices.  They started rising slowly after that.  (The Aussie dollar was worth more than the US dollar at the time).

Offline Retropin

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Re: Why were pin prices so high in 2008?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 07:01:27 PM »
It was before the GFC... money was easy to come by. Basket case EM's were selling on Ebay for $1000.. even I slapped down $10K around then for a few pins, all of which were gloriously overpriced. Prices in Aus were high but oddly enough, US prices were quite low in comparison.
Then the debt crisis hits and we all tighten our belts.. electricity soars, manufacturing slumps.
Prices in Aus remain relatively stable but the number has been drawn and paid for and so the continual push to get those prices again never ends. Noone is going to sell their TAF that they paid $6500 for  anything less.. chuck in some LEDs and it must go up in value right? Only the desperate sell for less than they paid.

Now though, prices in US are as high and often higher than they are here... everything has gone into private collections because the hobby has expanded so much... many of these machines are never seen again until an estate sale etc.

Most of the woodrails have gone... the 20,000 TAFs that were made are gone... the CVs are gone.
Its a case of.. you want me to sell my CV??.. Youd better make it worth my while...

And that is worldwide.

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Why were pin prices so high in 2008?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2015, 02:47:00 PM »
Gavs post was spot on.

2008 was high for new pins but che apish for imported USA models.

Then around the mid 2008 mark, mass euro container imports started.
At first the prices were high but the machines weren't from the USA home collector market so people wanted discounts on euro imports. Then prices soon dropped and any title u wanted was easily available. If u knew the container importer, you were set. You could get bargains over n over again if u were buying volume.
I had never seen Twilight Zones and Addams Families lined up a dozen each at the time.
All the high end Bally games were prolific. It was a smorgasbord for people with cash wanting to create big collections.

A lot of people were buying games, cleaning them up and putting them on ebay and making a very healthy profit.
Some guys did this over and over again and ended up with collections paid for.
The container mass importing times that started in 2008 was a magical time.

I personally got to see a good 25 containers worth of excellent pins unloaded and sold like hotcakes.

It's probably something that will never happen again in Australia to that size of importing all at once.
At the time it was a pin lovers dream.
Kid in a candy shop type stuff.

The prices for a new BNIB Stern Pro at just under 8 grand to me now is fine.
The price people are asking for 90,s DMD titles is way expensive.
But as Gavin rightly pointed out, people know replacement cost is going to be very high so they are only selling if they get their ideal money.

Never has the demand for pinballs been so high for pinballs in Australia than what it is right now.
Not as big as the 70,s but very high all the same. Long live pinball.
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Why were pin prices so high in 2008?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2015, 06:51:01 PM »
Interesting topic. One can be forgiven for forgetting that pinballs were imported into the country by container loads in the 70's, that would dwarf any year after 2000.

1. is it true 2008 was a year of high prices?;

No evidence suggests that other than opinion. Having a quick look at my spreadsheet of prices from years gone by, the market prices in Australia ;

2008 Prices

Addams Family -$4500 to $6000
CV - $4500 to $5000

2. if so have prices (generally) now surpassed 2008 levels;

Easily. Based mainly on greed rather than supply and demand. Evidence is overwhelming - just a quick scan of fleabay and listening to what games are being priced at (but no necessarily sold for)

2015 Prices

Addams Family - $7500 to $8500
CV (if you can find one) - $7000 to $8000

I recently restored an Addams that I VALUED at $9500. Dealers have raised their prices, and cut down on quality of workmanship, yet claim they sell Addams for $8500 +

3. if so why was 2008 a "peak"? Was it before container pins began coming into Oz in a bigger way?

2008 was not a peak in terms of volume or pricing - we are still heading towards THAT peak in the home market - but this needs to be put into context with respect to the containers that were imported in the Golden Age of pinball - before the home market. If we are purely discussing prices, then 2008 was simply another pedestrian year.

I bought my CV in 2008 for under $3000. I get offers of $7500 "as is" in 2015. No way was 2008 "the peak year" in the real world.
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Offline pinsanity

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Re: Why were pin prices so high in 2008?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2015, 09:57:41 PM »
Strangeways hit the nail on the head. 2008 wasn't really a year that could be claimed as having either peak prices or peak imports as generally speaking prices on used 90s machines are rising year on year across the board for most of the popular titles.

Traditional "A list" titles for example are continuing to rise gradually in price year by year but typically only sell for absolute top dollar when they are properly restored to a relatively limited buyer pool.

The biggest bounce in asking prices over the last few years post 2008 have been the B list and lower Bally Williams titles - the Getaways, the Fish Tales, the Judge Dredds et al.

What we did have back in 2008 that we are lacking now was reasonably priced NIB full featured Stern machines. Stern's pricing on ACDC Pro was a great way to reinvigorate a flagging market, but like the dealers they saw the sales that resulted and got greedy. Now Stern have continually raised the price bar nudging 8k for what is a basic entry level machine with initial 70% code on release for any newbie looking to add a single machine (or two) to their mancave.

Little wonder then that those people subsequently turn to the tried and tested fully coded alternatives at a better price point and thus those who bought at 2000-2500 price points on Bally Williams stock and have been sitting on those machines are all too keen to cash in now on the current boom.

A 4k Bally Williams B list title doesn't sound all that bad when a buyer's primary basis for comparison is an 8k Stern Pro.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 10:34:33 PM by pinsanity »