Author Topic: EM vs SS for repairs  (Read 2811 times)

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Offline pinball god

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EM vs SS for repairs
« on: November 25, 2008, 03:27:03 PM »
I'm really thinking hard about another machine eventhough I'm not supposed to. My thoughts are wether to continue buying the DMD-SS machines that have more bells and whistles or go for my first EM.

I'm thinking less can go wrong with an EM, but then I don't know, I could be right off the mark.

So from a reliability, easy of fixing/troubleshooting which in your opinion is better? I want to have a machine I can rely on being able to play day in day out and know it will work 99% of the time on power up.

Maybe its not the type but the game itself like stay away from TZ as there's too much that can go wrong as opposed to a T2 etc etc. What's your thoughts?
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2008, 03:47:47 PM »

Great question - and there's no real "correct" answer - as we all started at different times and have our own opinions.

I think DMDs are more complex and costly to own and repair. That's because I've grown up on EMs and SS. I'm very comfortable around EMs, and I've never "given up" on a repair. Most sellers will tell you they are "Nothing but trouble", "too hard to fix" or "there are no spare parts for them" because they don't have qualified (experienced) staff to maintain them. Go to Pinball Resource's site and you will see thousands of parts for Gottliebs. Unfortunately, EMs don't have the appeal to the younger generations, as there are no "bells and whistles" - But EMs have something DMDs don't have - character.. Well DMDs have not been around as long as EMs...  <.>

Solid States are my favorite and I'd say that they have made a huge comeback in the last 2 years. Some of the best machines were made in this era, and my all time "top 10" would be mostly SS machines from 1978 - 1982. Parts are available and they are easy to fix..

DMDs are still great fun and I look forward to restoring my CV and one day I might add a pinball magic or Scared Stiff to my collection.

I'm comfortable with maintaining all three formats. If you find an EM or SS that you really want to add to your collection, don't be too concerned about reliability, ease of repair and troubleshooting of EMs or SS - Stick to Gottlieb, Williams or Bally and you can't go wrong !

Finally - It also depends on your ambition to learn about older games. There's plenty or resources out there and sites like these that have members only to happy to assist !

Footnote - I've pulled EMs out storage and powered them on for the first time in 20 years.. They worked !!

 
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Offline Retropin

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2008, 09:28:26 PM »
Im quite into playing DMD's now. Ive only fixed a few over the years and because of their unfamiliarity, i tend to get blinded when i first look at all the circuitry. But once i take a deep breath and break it all down into sections, im ready to dive in.

SS machines can be easy to fix or downright irritating. The years have taken their toll on some of these and it often feels like you are chasing your tail, fix one thing and another goes down etc. I dread the day when DMD's are this old. I LOVE a good working SS game, out of all of them, id rather work on a WMS machine than any others - just personal preference.

EM games - well, these always bring a smile to my face, so long as everything is in place i KNOW it CAN be fixed, can work on them live etc - nothing to blow on these except the odd coil, but if it locks on then turn game off straight away.
Ive been working on a 1948 Genco Triple Action over the weekend - no schematic or manual ever produced - so im on my own here. Ill post later when shes finally running, but working on this machine has been a real joy. Ive really enjoyed trying to work out what triggers what etc - nothing labelled either. Ive taken this one to my heart, fixing it is a true pleasure.

But.... Will it be 100% solid when done?? - Nope, but is any machine??? What i do know is that i did have it working once and so it can be done again with a little logical thought, some flat nosed pliers and some meths. I may not get her fixed straight away, but i do know that im not looking for faulty chips, noise suppressing caps, resistors out of speck etc.

So my favourite to fix is EM - but ask me again when im tearing my hair out fixing one and you may get a different answer!

Offline pinball god

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 11:17:47 PM »
Sounds like the SS's have it for ease of repair. I want something to really get my teeth into and not be blown away with too much electronics and gadgetry. I have fixed a fair bit on the DMD's but like you say, there's lots that can take your mind off actual problem and I tend analyze the problem too deeply when its right in front of my nose. And I'm talking mech problems as well where I start blaming the electronics first instead of the root of the problem.

I think I'm in need of a ss machine but first need to consider the game that takes my fancy. Thanks guys for your input.
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2008, 11:38:28 PM »

Best place to look at pictures is on www.ipdb.org

That has pictures on just about all the games. You can search based on name, year and manufacturer - A great reference site.

There is nothing like playing the game - So you can check out what Dealers might have, although most don't have them, they are around - and of course there is eBay.
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Offline tonyt

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2008, 05:23:13 PM »
"Some of the best machines were made in this era, and my all time "top 10" would be mostly SS machines from 1978 - 1982"

Hi Nino,

Would be interested to know please what your all time top 10 machines are.

Regards,
Tony

stuba

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2008, 05:44:22 PM »
haven't ever worked on an EM but find SS repairs are pretty easy most of the time. the internal diagnostics got better with time. the dmd's are more complex but better diagnostics to even that up against the early bally SS. i have had the most problems with a TZ but reckon I've got it beaten now (I installed a PINLED driver board - magic diagnostics and much improved power regulation and flow). seems to have fixed all of the issues (the previous PDB had been serioulsy hacked). keen to get an EM to mess around with just to see how they worked. i think most people focus on the machines they played 'in the day'. Its funny but i played pins in two different eras (in my early teens when i wagged school - early 80's) and then again at uni in my early 20's (90's DMD's). i remember seeing EM's but can't ever remember playing one (I know I did) but it just wasn't as memorable as playboy and centaur!


Offline Strangeways

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2008, 06:07:57 PM »
"Some of the best machines were made in this era, and my all time "top 10" would be mostly SS machines from 1978 - 1982"

Hi Nino,

Would be interested to know please what your all time top 10 machines are.

Regards,
Tony


This changes with time, but my "top 10" as it stands would be ;

(* denotes that I own already)

1 - Paragon *
2 - KISS *
3 - Fathom *
4 - Medusa *
5 - Spirit *
6 - Haunted House *
7 - Spirit of 76 (EM) *
8 - Circus Voltaire *
9 - Winner (EM)
10 - Scared Stiff

Special Mentions - Super Score, Sky Jump, Planets, Centaur


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Offline tonyt

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2008, 06:10:29 PM »
Thanks Nino, 10 more machines to go for me then!

Offline pinball god

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2008, 09:07:24 PM »
Yep Nino played a few of them and have some fond memories. I can beat you Stuba LOL as I  started with the EM's in the late 60"s (about 7YO) and even played a little the Bingo machines but must agree the SS's have it.

My fav's that I can remember were:
Centaur,
Black Knight
Dracula (for some reason)
Kiss
Black Hole (although the mini playfield used to spin me out a bit, especially when drunk)
Mata Hari

But for game play the DMD's have it as the SS's like T2 can go on forever once you have the shots down pat.

I think I do need an SS for sure, off to ebay or the dealers for me after Xmas.
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Offline ajlaird

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2008, 11:08:24 PM »

This changes with time, but my "top 10" as it stands would be ;

(* denotes that I own already)

1 - Paragon *
2 - KISS *
3 - Fathom *
4 - Medusa *
5 - Spirit *
6 - Haunted House *
7 - Spirit of 76 (EM) *
8 - Circus Voltaire *
9 - Winner (EM)
10 - Scared Stiff

Special Mentions - Super Score, Sky Jump, Planets, Centaur


What, no EBD??? By the way, MarkC has a project Super Score for sale http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Super-Score-Pinball-machine_W0QQitemZ380086668140QQihZ025QQcategoryZ3945QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem - but you probably already knew that.

stuba

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2008, 11:11:56 PM »
outrageous!  !*!
no ebd, no playboy.  @.@

Offline Strangeways

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2008, 11:28:42 PM »

This changes with time, but my "top 10" as it stands would be ;

(* denotes that I own already)

1 - Paragon *
2 - KISS *
3 - Fathom *
4 - Medusa *
5 - Spirit *
6 - Haunted House *
7 - Spirit of 76 (EM) *
8 - Circus Voltaire *
9 - Winner (EM)
10 - Scared Stiff

Special Mentions - Super Score, Sky Jump, Planets, Centaur


What, no EBD??? By the way, MarkC has a project Super Score for sale http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Super-Score-Pinball-machine_W0QQitemZ380086668140QQihZ025QQcategoryZ3945QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem - but you probably already knew that.

He told me tonight... I had no idea he had it, and now I'm bleeding as I cannot possibly buy another pinball.. Looks great - If it was availble 6 months ago it would be in my gamesroom.. Not to worry, another will pop up..

EBD - Never really liked EBD.. Same with Playboy (sorry Stuba).. Although I will be restoring my Playboy - full respray and Clearcoat - So I might enjoy it then..


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Offline pinball god

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2008, 11:21:58 AM »
Trying to work out EBD?? Killing me as I probably have played it and probably agree on its rating. Pls advise of the name for my sanity
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: EM vs SS for repairs
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2008, 11:39:50 AM »
Trying to work out EBD?? Killing me as I probably have played it and probably agree on its rating. Pls advise of the name for my sanity

Eight Ball deluxe  :D
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