Working Gottlieb 'Pro Football' machine - owner

[oldpins]

A couple of questions if you own a Gottlieb 'Pro Football'.
1. Do both the flippers remain powered and operate after 'Game Over' ?
2. When the machine is 'Tilted', e.g on the 2nd ball, are you still able to press the right flipper to launch another ball into play? (Currently all GI on PF turns off, however the bumpers, slingshots etc remain powered and add to score)
I would appreciate your help as I'm not sure whether the above should happen.

Greg

[Boots]

A couple of questions if you own a Gottlieb 'Pro Football'.
1. Do both the flippers remain powered and operate after 'Game Over' ?
2. When the machine is 'Tilted', e.g on the 2nd ball, are you still able to press the right flipper to launch another ball into play? (Currently all GI on PF turns off, however the bumpers, slingshots etc remain powered and add to score)
I would appreciate your help as I'm not sure whether the above should happen.

Greg

Have you just bought this machine or has this just started happening?

In answer to your questions:
1. Normally the flippers are disabled after "Game Over"
2. When a pinball is 'tilted' it should only cancel the current ball in play, then allow you to launch another ball (the next ball if available) eg if you tilt on the 2nd ball, once the ball drains it should eject the 3rd ball for you to continue the game. On some (all?) games there is a setting where you can set the tilt to end the game, but that is not the norm.

[shansta]

1. Flippers and GI power off... Game over and the 3 flashers behind "Pro-football" light up.

2. Tilt kills the game completely - press start button to reset from ball 1 which decrements the credit count by 1. I have not found a way to "continue" a game after "tilt"...

I'll PM my mobile if you want me to check relay states and stuff for you.

Shane.

[millsy]

This may help if you havent a schematic.

[oldpins]

Boots, the problem has been there when I purchased the game. Millsy, I do have schematics, followed the circuits and everything looks to be OK. I spoke to Shane(Shansta) on the weekend and sorted a couple of wires which needed to be changed over on the 0-6 position unit in the BB. The problem is when the game is over or tilted the right flipper button remains operational and your able to shoot the ball back into play. When tilted the the tilt relay does drop out the hold relay will cut all GI, however bumpers, slingshots etc all remain powered. I have been over the circuit a hundred times and cannot find this bl.........y problem. Thanks all for the help. Shane I'll give you another call if I can't fix this.

Greg

[shansta]

NP mate - anytime. 

I'll have a think about it later on when I get things sorted out domestically... (have to make up for the w/e spent working on pinnys...  )

[oldpins]

NP mate - anytime.  

I'll have a think about it later on when I get things sorted out domestically... (have to make up for the w/e spent working on pinnys...   )

Hi Shane,
If you could let me know whether the 'O' (Ball Return Relay) should drop out (De energise) when the game is over. If it does this is where I have the problem
I have sorted the the tilt problem and all is knocked out (Hold Relay drops out and power to everything including the flippers, except BB lighting, and new a game needs to be started regardless of which ball in play) I'll explain this later as I have changed wiring over on the hold relay which is not in line with the schematics ? Thanks!

Greg

 

[shansta]

Sorry I missed your call earlier - should have left your number - I thought it was my outlaws calling!  


Relay O is energized with the ball set up to launch - as soon as the game scores - it drops O out, so when the ball drains with O de-energized it increases the ball count.

If the ball drains without scoring (and O is still on) - Q relay disables the flippers and re-enables ball launch with the right button.

O is definitely off when the game is over (the only time it's energized, is waiting for ball launch)

Tilt drops the O relay out also...

Hope that is sort of what you were after?

Shane.


EDIT: Your "tilt" now sounds identical to mine - so I think it must be right?

[oldpins]

Thanks Shane The 'O' relay is my problem. It remains energised after 'Game over' keeping the right flipper alive to enable score motor operation and another ball launch. Looking at the schematics power should be stopped thru the '6th position' contacts in the ball count unit. We discussed this unit earlier by phone and I beleive something may be wrong. I'll attach a photo of the unit and test voltages at the contacts to make a comparison.

Greg

[oldpins]

Here's a pic of the ball count unit contacts. At game over (6 th position) what voltages do you get at the contacts shown ? Speaking about wire colours by phone this is how it is wired. Thanks

[shansta]

I get 32v in tilt or game over (from the 2 red/white wires)

0v when game running/ball in play - pulses to 32v when the score motor runs.


The red/green wire (top left switch) should go to left hand backbox plug - bottom row, 4th from the left.


I had a shit-load of trouble getting that AB interlock relay to work properly - it's a real PITA to get right.

Hitting the "AB" interlock with a screwdriver will force the game to run if the score reel switches are out. Maybe the previous owner/fixer bent something in there?

(I'm looking in the schema - the AB is part of that circuit)


EDIT: The red/black wire from the left hand switch goes next to the red/green....
SO - backbox plug - 3rd from left, this also has another lighter colored wire in the same terminal...

This (slate/blue?) wire goes up to the score reel relay switch "F" and then loops to the other score reel relays...

[oldpins]

I'm getting power to the x2 red/white wires at all times except when tilted. All other info you have given me is correct. The 'O' relay remains energised after 'game over' which enables the right flipper to launch the ball back into play after the 5 th ball. This fault is driving me b...y crazy, I have tried everything. I will follow the red/white wires to determine their power source to-day. I appreciate your help ! 

Greg

[millsy]

Hi Greg
Does the Last Ball Relay (XB or BX) trip after the Ball Return Relay (O) is activated ?
Is the Game Over light illuminated at backglass after last ball drain ?

[shansta]

Red/White looks like it runs the entire bloody machine... (RHS of schematic)

I'm missing something here - O (on mine) switches off as soon as a score is registered for that ball.

It does not switch back on until the ball drains, score motor runs and increases the ball count - then the relay comes on IF there is a ball in the outhole.

Is your machine dropping the O relay off when you have scored points?


I'm hopeless with the logic - but it looks like a contact on "P" might hold "O" in as well?

[oldpins]

These red/white wires I agree loop everywhere. I have removed one red /white wire to the 'BB' relay (this comes from the score motor on '1C') from the 'BB' relay it loops to the '6th position' relay. By doing this, on 'Game over' the ball launcher will not operate ('0' relay will not latch) however the 'Q' relay will not latch as well which means the flippers remains powered. On start of another game when launching the ball, the right flipper operates when the ball is launched into play. The fix I have made does not affect any other game play. I have spent hours on finding the bl....dy fault, however I am going to leave it where it is for now as I want to get onto another restore. Thanks Shane & Millsy (All BB lights on at 'Game over')

Greg