Author Topic: Wizard Of OZ Pinball  (Read 57930 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Olivia_jason

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #825 on: November 02, 2012, 01:42:30 AM »
(you changed your 2 x prev posts after i answered so my prev posts may not make sense now) no big deal...lol

But, but remember, your router is directly plugged into a phone socket...which gives u dial tone, then u wi-fi anywhere in the house to the router which is connected...or if u have no phone line onsite, u have to have a gsm simcard to access internet without a phone line.

The only way JJP can do a wifi update, is if they incl a expensive inbuilt mode/router like the one people have in laptops like u mentioned, or if a gsm dialler is added (which is just not cost effective any simcards are a pain in the ass for fifty reasons incl connection/monthly plans or pre-paid etc).

JJP will have to have a wi-fi modem in the WOZ machine just like a laptop has, or same type as hidden in a norm computer case etc. They might surprise us and incl it, but i thought the costs would be too high, and nothing has been mentioned to date....

Ok on the very rare occasion a work site doesnt have wifi, then use your phone as the wifi hotspot.
if you look at your phone cav, there is a feature that makes your phone a portable hotspot. that will allow anything to connect to it to use 3g or 4g internet. will allow my pc to use the net off my phone with out wires. same could be done for a pinball. no big deal or tricks you can even buy 3g wifi routers. you dont need to put a sim in a pinball machine if it has wifi, you just need a phone or a router around it with internet access.

Offline Sunfox

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • **
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #826 on: November 02, 2012, 01:43:08 AM »
Um, WiFi is not in any way related to 3G/4G/GSM.

WiFi is 802.11a/b/g/n. If the only way to connect to the internet in a particular place is over the cell data network, then the modem/dialer will be hooked up to the router so that all devices can share the connection, not WOZ. Heck, most phones can become their own hotspots now.

WiFi is everywhere. Hotels, coffee shops, restaurants, public buildings, book stores, arcades, convention centers, my bedroom right now as I type this. Jack only needs to add WiFi and ideally a wired ethernet connector in WOZ and his end of the job will be done. The rest is up to you.

Regarding fans, Jack has said so far the fan count is currently at "maximum" and they plan on figuring out which ones they can take out before shipping. I'm not a fan of fans either, but even if the boards were in the backbox, there WOULD have to be fans (Stern's low-end CPU board doesn't produce any significant amount of heat compare to a computer capable of 4+ streams of HD video plus overlays plus controlling the actual game).
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 01:45:14 AM by Sunfox »

Offline Caveoftreasures

  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #827 on: November 02, 2012, 01:51:02 AM »
Um, WiFi is not in any way related to 3G/4G/GSM.

WiFi is 802.11a/b/g/n. If the only way to connect to the internet in a particular place is over the cell data network, then the modem/dialer will be hooked up to the router so that all devices can share the connection, not WOZ. Heck, most phones can become their own hotspots now.

WiFi is everywhere. Hotels, coffee shops, restaurants, public buildings, book stores, arcades, convention centers, my bedroom right now as I type this. Jack only needs to add WiFi and ideally a wired ethernet connector in WOZ and his end of the job will be done. The rest is up to you.

Regarding fans, Jack has said so far the fan count is currently at "maximum" and they plan on figuring out which ones they can take out before shipping. I'm not a fan of fans either, but even if the boards were in the backbox, there WOULD have to be fans (Stern's low-end CPU board doesn't produce any significant amount of heat compare to a computer capable of 4+ streams of HD video plus overlays plus controlling the actual game).

correct on everything u said.

the prev posts got mudled up cause a few were changed after posting answers and it gets/got confusing.lol
yes, if they spend the money on the wi-fi hardware, then the wifi updates will be excellent.

I will add, I did forget that JJP is using a computer style arrangement versus what Stern has been successfully been using because WOZ has the graphics requirements for the LCD etc and needs alot more processing power, hence the fans are required etc etc.  Overall, it seems to be fully loaded thats for sure..hope gameplay is good enough to have all this stuff built around it.......
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline Olivia_jason

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #828 on: November 02, 2012, 01:51:39 AM »
also one other note, you can go down to Joyce mayne and by a wifi usb stick for $20 cav, so its not an expense really and having the thing connect to a network, database or game server is the best idea you could do, think about versing your mate in america in a pinball game over the internet and not some fantasy game actuall pinball??? better than playstation right there.

this is how stupid stern are, how didnt they think of that??

Offline Caveoftreasures

  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #829 on: November 02, 2012, 01:57:53 AM »
I have wondered ever since pin2000 was built, why pinball machines never had basic phone tone diallers (like plugging in a phone to a wall) included.

Then, when another 10 yrs went past, and wifi was invented, why that wasnt added to a pinball. Then, even drink machines located at train stations have basic gsm mobile diallers in them that only cost a few hundred bucks, even if u had a machine located in a cabin in a forrest, it could still be network capable and stand alone. I thought it would have been required when Stern started talking/producing tournament signage/buttons/etc.

10 yrs behind the times still....
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline Olivia_jason

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #830 on: November 02, 2012, 02:02:56 AM »
about 12 months ago i said on one of these post,
pinball needs to be networked, and if they want to succeed in todays age it needs to be networked, how awesome would it be to organise a night here and have a pinball comp from our lounge?
thats why consoles are so good, and if you can beat a game then you have the second option of trying to beat the other player, so not just limited to the depth of the game, so the game can be better if its social and networked up. why wouldnt have stern thought of that? its not even tricky todo.

seriously why couldnt player two score display on your machine actually have your mates score on it from the other side of the world?? with a network and some programing plus a simple server, bingo
This is how out of touch stern are and how un innovative they are. imo

Offline Sunfox

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • **
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #831 on: November 02, 2012, 02:28:08 AM »
Stern is working on a better system now - obviously because of competition - but their last SAM system was uninspired, meant merely to take everything they had, and duplicate it using more modern technology (since the old parts were getting difficult to source). The only actual benefits SAM really has over Whitestar is USB updating and slightly increased storage (but still pitifully low compared to what it should have been at the time). And the only changes visible to players are slightly clearer audio (still rather poor due to storage space issues), and a few more monochrome shades (16, but I think Keith said only 10 were actually usable).

Heck... if you sat an X-Men next to a 1995 Frankenstein and asked a layman to pick out which one was technically more advanced, they'd probably go with the 17 year old model because it had stereo sound and a bigger DMD!

Now with WOZ... it's going to be painfully obvious it's more advanced than anything else out in the field.

Offline Olivia_jason

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #832 on: November 02, 2012, 02:47:32 AM »
Stern is working on a better system now - obviously because of competition - but their last SAM system was uninspired, meant merely to take everything they had, and duplicate it using more modern technology (since the old parts were getting difficult to source). The only actual benefits SAM really has over Whitestar is USB updating and slightly increased storage (but still pitifully low compared to what it should have been at the time). And the only changes visible to players are slightly clearer audio (still rather poor due to storage space issues), and a few more monochrome shades (16, but I think Keith said only 10 were actually usable).

Heck... if you sat an X-Men next to a 1995 Frankenstein and asked a layman to pick out which one was technically more advanced, they'd probably go with the 17 year old model because it had stereo sound and a bigger DMD!

Now with WOZ... it's going to be painfully obvious it's more advanced than anything else out in the field.

what i dont understand is why pinballs only play one way these days? like why isnt there more than one game that is allowed? other than easy and hard and so on, why cant they have a few choices of games? you have your regular rules that suit the theme for regular game play.
Then have other smaller games like skill tester style? or small battle games, eg who can hit that spinner the quickest and your mate has to beat that time,
especially if they are made for home markets now, another example- there are three drop targets in your game, and on your dmd or lcd is a set of orders that come up you must knock down those targets on order with timer before you loose that game, like a practice mode on a Xbox game.
you arent worried about draining balls or bound by regular rules, you just have to aim for targets or ramps or do certain things outside regular pinball rules to help hone skills for regular play,
if its wifi you even go up against your mate or what not fro mthe other side of the world, stern have not been thinking out side of the box and are thinking like pinball 20 years ago limited by tech, however they arent limited by tech, they are limited by imagination.

pinball must be networked imo, so you can battle off with people in real time and have their score on your machine, so you can get angry and plot your revenge when its your ball, and make it feel like they are playing beside you, when actual fact they are on the other side of the world.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 02:54:21 AM by Olivia_jason »

Offline Retropin

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #833 on: November 02, 2012, 09:12:45 AM »
The WiFi is genius... the kids here play things like " call of Duty" with another dweeb in USA, UK etc.. doesnt matter, its whos connected at the time.
To be able to have a tournament at any time with anyone else that is in front of a pinball is master stroke, although a darker theme would suit this much better... but we all know that already.
CPU in the cabinet.. love it, no more large bundles of cables extending from the cabinet to the head. Main beauty i can see with this is that the head can come off to move the machine around. I cant stand the fold down head on DMD's.. makes the games very cumbersome to move around and also super heavy. ( i have 5 steps to move a machine up and down... DMD's are just not practical).
Why didnt Stern do anything like this? Well.. when you have no competition and punters are happy that ANY pinball is being made... why would you? R&D costs money... Stern dont like R&D.
Competition is a wonderful thing and weak theme or not, rattling Sterns cage can only benefit all of us

Offline Strangeways

  • Pinball Restoration is my passion
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • *****
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
  • ABN 68 283 634 461
    • Ride The Boney Beast
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #834 on: November 02, 2012, 11:15:20 AM »


3. The cooling fans are worthy of discussion and relevant because getting rid of them or redesigning them out is important to consider, because unlike a home computer, a WOZ machine is going to cost people close to $9,000.00 (9 grand plus) and unlike a $1500 home computer, people will expect it to last 10 yrs plus (like every other pinball out there has done/lasted since the 70's, 80's or 90's which fill most peoples collections...people expect 10 yrs minimum. If a fan fails, will it be Pin2000 all over gain with board excessive heat n replacement required...if it needs 2 x fans, things must be getting hot, why not redesign it with better self cooling....



Most pinballs since the 70's etc has lasted until now, but that does not change the fact that they were designed to last 5 - 10 years. Irrespective if they lasted 11 - 100 years = does not change anything. The only argument would exist if they lasted 1 - 10 years and failed (See WMS SYS 4 and GTB SYS 1). BTW - There are computers which cost a lot more than $9000, and they use the same fans as a $500 computer. In my former occupation I was setting up SANS with Servers that cost $60,000+. The fans in those servers were made at the same factories in China as clone PCs costing $500. What JJP should be looking at is a bank of smaller fans that are CPU controlled based on temperature, and have redundancy built in. So instead of one big fan designed to last 5 years, they could install smaller, modular, redundant fans (exactly as the servers I was talking about). When a fan fails, an error is reported, and the failed fan can be hot swapped over in 5 minutes. You can even configure a couple of fans to be "hot swap", so that if one fan fails, the hot swap kicks in. Exactly the same as RAID disks.

I'd be really surprised if this has not been thought of and implemented already.

Heat rises - So in an air conditioned home environment, it makes perfect sense to mount the PC hardware in the lower cabinet. Given the noise these fans could potentially make, they would be drowned out by the speaker system. Looking at the LCD on the game, there would be a lot of heat generated in the backbox, and limited space.
Aussie Pinball - Proud to be Australia's Premier Pinball Forum

http://www.australianpinballrestorations.com.au/

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/

We carry the largest range of NEW Ramps in Australia

Offline chillie

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • ****
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #835 on: November 02, 2012, 12:26:41 PM »
Have a read of pinball news's latest news

http://www.pinballnews.com/games/wizardofoz/index34.html

Offline Olivia_jason

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #836 on: November 02, 2012, 03:07:18 PM »
wow, look at that news link above, look at the detail of the construction. what was the price of this game and compared to acdc?? look at what you get for you money, that looks pretty good, ok i might buy the next title if its not a lame title like this, this company looks like they know how to make a clever pinball.

Offline Caveoftreasures

  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #837 on: November 02, 2012, 07:35:17 PM »
everything looks great. wow, great building.
I have said before, that I would wait for my WOZ machine until they get close to the end of the few thousand machines being built and not the first batch (series) of games because there is likely to be soooo many updates and changes to the machines hardware and production of the first series.
After reading that article, and they too are talking about so many updates and changes, I am glad I will be waiting til much later cause I think I will be getting a much more advanced machine with various factory mods which will make it even better again. The first series will be fine, but I reckon the later series WOZ machines will be even better again.

massive amount of work to do there to set the storage racks up for all the parts etc, and redesign things as they go. JJP shld be proud, he has done things first class. It looks like a mercedes dealership inside it is sooo clean .
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline Olivia_jason

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #838 on: November 02, 2012, 07:44:31 PM »
everything looks great. wow, great building.
I have said before, that I would wait for my WOZ machine until they get close to the end of the few thousand machines being built and not the first batch (series) of games because there is likely to be soooo many updates and changes to the machines hardware and production of the first series.
After reading that article, and they too are talking about so many updates and changes, I am glad I will be waiting til much later cause I think I will be getting a much more advanced machine with various factory mods which will make it even better again. The first series will be fine, but I reckon the later series WOZ machines will be even better again.

massive amount of work to do there to set the storage racks up for all the parts etc, and redesign things as they go. JJP shld be proud, he has done things first class. It looks like a mercedes dealership inside it is sooo clean .

agreed
im actually starting to wonder how he is going to make any money, this looks like the work of a perfectionist. already talking about new tech is crazy but cool. i think buyers might be getting more for their buck than what was first thought.
I am so bummed on this theme, its such a waste of what is an awesome machine but at the same time, looking at this work if JJp come sout with a really cool title i may buy my first NIB pinball, as i recon with that tech and innovation in a cool theme, you might see the best pinball made in decades,

Offline swinks

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Lake Macquarie, NSW
Re: Wizard Of OZ Pinball
« Reply #839 on: November 02, 2012, 07:51:57 PM »
Boy that is a well thought out factory and he is doing it right right from the beginning. I am positive once he gets past all the 1st time experiences he will fine turn his design, production and delivery process and he will stand out in so many ways compared to everyone else.

 #*# good on you Jack
https://swinks.com.au

for pinball parts (reproduction & mods)
for pinball t-shirts