Author Topic: Machines With Leds ! Excellent Results. What A Difference. Photos.  (Read 22358 times)

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Offline Caveoftreasures

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I wanted to start a thread about changing all my machines over to LED's.  
The idea being that as I change over a machine to LED's I will take a photo or short video of the before and after results and put them on this thread. Rather than doing a different thread for every machine, I will just add each machine I do to this thread until all machines are done with LEDs. Should be a good catalogue of photos etc for alot of titles. So far I have done GILLIGANS, CONGO and today I am doing TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES.
As I do each machine, I will list what LEDs I used, and how many I used per title so if anyone else wants to do their same machine, It might help other AP members.

I have got 3 dozen machines to do, but I figure that if I attempt to do a machine each week or so, and document each machine with before and after photos, this could become a very long and interesting thread with lots of great photos that will show the results of changing over machines to LED's.

In the past I was hesitant or unsure if I should go the LED route, but after doing GILLIGANS and seeing first hand the massive positive visual difference, and seeing also what damage std candescent bulbs can do to under playfield inserts because of excessive heat, LED's are the way to go to preserve machines for the long term.
 
The only compromise I do make, is that I leave the above playfield General Illumination lights the standard 44 bayonet style candescent bulbs because the light from stock bulbs does a better job of providing a larger spread of light compared to LED's. I find that LEDs above the playfield can make it difficult to keep track of the ball on some titles, and that if u are watching someone else play a game and u are standing next to the machine, LEDs above playfield can get right in your eyes making watching unenjoyable.

A friend is also converting his machines over and he has ALOT of different LEDs, so I just ordered two thousand LEDs from him with a large mixture of 555 and 44 type LEDs which come in all different shapes n sizes n colours. I will experiment with changing out all the backbox 555 bulbs on each machine to white LED's as well.
The heat from std 555 candescent bulbs is crazy. The heat tends to damage translites n backglasses over time. Converting to LEDs in the backbox will also save heat which will also be beneficial for the longterm health of the game. Any reduction in heat is a benefit. Just got to decide if the warm glow of std bulbs looks better than the bright white light of backbox LEDs.

When I finish TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES tonight, I will add photos/video of all the machines I have done so far.  ^^^ Stay tuned. Thanks for reading.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 03:41:23 PM by Caveoftreasures »
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
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Offline Pintoxicated

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Wow, big job ahead mate but it will be well worth it. 

I use 47 globes as opposed to the 44's, not quite as bright but that means a little bit less stress on the boards and a little bit less heat as well.
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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Wow, big job ahead mate but it will be well worth it.  

I use 47 globes as opposed to the 44's, not quite as bright but that means a little bit less stress on the boards and a little bit less heat as well.

Some machines are so much easier to put LEDs into than others. TURTLES for example is so easy with easy under playfield access, where CONGO was difficult with heaps of stuff in the way of globe holders etc. GILLIGANS was half n half with the difficulty factor. I had a look at Star Trek Next Gen for an example,and again can be challenging in some areas. After TURTLES, I will finish TWISTER which is mostly done and then FISHTLES the probably POPEYE etc. So many to do, but I will make it fun.
I will just patiently do a machine each week.  I tend to dislike 47 globes, just not bright enough. With the machines only on for a few hours here n there, or for say 6 to 8 hrs maximum for a pinball party, I dont mind the 44 globes and brightness for General Illumination.  Doing each machine one by one shld keep me busy and off the streets.lol  %.%   By the time u finish doing a machine with full LEDs, u feel like a nap. Getting old at 41 yrs.  
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 01:36:55 AM by Caveoftreasures »
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline Caveoftreasures

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I finished doing LED's to TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES after a lousy few hours. It was very quick to do. What a difference.  $#$  I am doing FISHTALES probably next with the last bit of the TWISTER LED and clean job very close by.


I am just playing with the brand new video camera, and will work out how to upload the videos of the LED shop jobs of GILLIGANS, CONGO and TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES.

I think I will upload them to YOUTUBE and then place the links on here. Thats my mission tonight.  ^^^ At this rate, The LED shop jobs to all machines might be done alot quicker than planned. The extra 2,000 LEDs are on the way from my mate, and I will need them cause I am chewing through them very quickly. I am going to need one very serious LED plastic divider type storage case to place the dozens of different types into. Grabbing the right one sometimes is like digging thru a large handfull of coloured smarties to just pick out one colour.  concave, flat, frosted, 555, 44, angled, LEDs with extension arms. It does ya head in after a few hours.
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline Pintoxicated

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What did the LEDs cost if you don't mind me asking?
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Offline Olivia_jason

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What did the LEDs cost if you don't mind me asking?

theres an ebay seller from china who sells them really cheap, i kited 2 machines for $70, and that is allot of bulbs.

Offline Caveoftreasures

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In the past I have always purchased my LEDs from Mark when he had them on special. I just emailed him for a bulk purchase price and got a good deal.

The BULK purchase this time is thru a local friend who purchased a massive amount of BULK LEDs from someone in the USA and he passed on the savings to me from his BULK purchase. I have previously purchased cheap LEDs from China directly, and half of them didnt even work. So now its only Mark, or thru the USA etc.
The price works out for me to be apx 22 cents each for quality LEDs via my friends BULK deal.

Get quotes from Mark C, Cointaker, Pinball Life etc etc. Check with RTBB as well. Most people arent going to order enough LEDs to do 30 machines like I have but shop local if u can, or get quotes etc. All companies are great to deal with. Demand excellent postage prices if u are buying in bulk. Dont trust the standard postage calculator that u see on the various web sites. Send a personal email explaining your specific order and your post code etc, and u find the postage costs drop by over 50 percent.

I am thinking of buying in 20,000 (twenty thousand) LEDs in and doing some AP deals to pass on the great prices I can achieve. More on that later.   ^^^
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 08:32:25 PM by Caveoftreasures »
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline Retropin

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I werent aware of any USA made LED's.. China yes,Taiwan yes Germany yes.
CREE chip is USA chip, but thats a driver chip only... thats then onsold to LED manufacturers to make LED. Theres no difference between CREE and EPISTAR etc cept CREE made in USA... it didnt take the other manufacturers to refine the drivers to CREE standards.


At 22c ea... they aint made in good old USA mate

Offline Caveoftreasures

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I werent aware of any USA made LED's.. China yes,Taiwan yes Germany yes.
CREE chip is USA chip, but thats a driver chip only... thats then onsold to LED manufacturers to make LED. Theres no difference between CREE and EPISTAR etc cept CREE made in USA... it didnt take the other manufacturers to refine the drivers to CREE standards.


At 22c ea... they aint made in good old USA mate

Good Point Gav. I know/knew that. EVERYTHING IS MADE IN CHINA. I meant supplied by USA companies in my specific bulk purchase. Thru the USA scource my mate uses, I have a guarrantee from them etc with regards to refunds/swapping out any faulty/dud LEDs. From my previous China scourced LEDs, when half were found to be faulty/dud, I got no refunds or any help. This time, this way, any faulty ones get fully replaced etc.  ^^^
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline Retropin

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I werent aware of any USA made LED's.. China yes,Taiwan yes Germany yes.
CREE chip is USA chip, but thats a driver chip only... thats then onsold to LED manufacturers to make LED. Theres no difference between CREE and EPISTAR etc cept CREE made in USA... it didnt take the other manufacturers to refine the drivers to CREE standards.


At 22c ea... they aint made in good old USA mate

Good Point Gav. I know/knew that. EVERYTHING IS MADE IN CHINA. I meant supplied by USA companies in my specific bulk purchase. Thru the USA scource my mate uses, I have a guarrantee from them etc with regards to refunds/swapping out any faulty/dud LEDs. From my previous China scourced LEDs, when half were found to be faulty/dud, I got no refunds or any help. This time, this way, any faulty ones get fully replaced etc.  ^^^


....Interesting... whats the guarantee on them??? Its a tough call as the quality of the LED driver is just as important as the quality of the LED itself... unless the LED has a constant current chip coupled with it and a fully regulated voltage supply.. then failures can be expected... there will be all sorts of ripple from your voltage source that will shorten the life of the LED... it didnt matter too much how clean the power source was with the 44 or 47 bulbs so long as the voltage didnt ramp up overheating the filament.. LED is far more sensitive.
Just to add, ive got the 1936 Stoner machine working 99%... it still has the original bulbs in it... all of which still work. Thats some 75 years they have lasted and just goes to show that todays modern mass produced products just are not the quality of years ago. One of my LED suppliers sent me a report that had serious concerns for LED in that while LED CAN last for a few thousand hours given the right conditions.. whether it could prove itself as reliable in a mass produced market was a completely different ball game... anyway, hope they hold up for you as at the moment its still not a very cheap alternative.

Offline Caveoftreasures

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The guarrantee is that if they work, I keep them, ones that dont work get sent back for a instant replacement, given shipping time etc.

As a guide to cost, I used apx 40 LEDs to do the playfield on TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES. Thats a total cost of less than $10 to do the whole machine. BARGAIN !

If u calculate a machine that has double (80 x LEDS) thats only $20 per machine or up to $40 for a 160 LED machine. Those LED kits u see various sellers selling at $200 plus can be a little expensive, even if u calculate and add the flashers in. You are best to buy LEDs in bulk, and fit and do your own kit.

As a guide, I place red LEDs under red inserts, green under green inserts, white under white etc, and purple under purple etc, BUT i use white under orange mostly and white under yellow mostly. Some yellow or orange inserts look better with white under compared to yellow or orange etc. Just experiment etc.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 10:37:13 PM by Caveoftreasures »
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline RottyGuy

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Can you post some photos of the machines you've done already ? I'm keen to try LEDs on my nect machine ( if i can find one )

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Can you post some photos of the machines you've done already ? I'm keen to try LEDs on my nect machine ( if i can find one )

At this very minute, I am still trying to upload the videos of Congo, Gilligans and TMN Turtles to YOUTUBE and then onto the forum. It might take me a few hours or ten hours, standby, thanks.  ^^^
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline v8racefan

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I've seen the Gilligans pin, it looks amazing with LEDS.  ^^^

LEDS actually make some games look more modern imo, keep up the good work mate
Pinballs in my collection Elvira, Stern Grand Prix, Bally Corvette, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Judge Dredd, Black Rose and Data East Guns n Roses.

Offline RottyGuy

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Good stuff. I look forward to the videos.