STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012

[Retropin]

I couldn't agree more with Retropin and Olivia Jason, but it is obvious we're dealing with a firm believer who is going to see a full glass when there are only a few drops in it. That's still fine, so let's agree to disagree.

are you trying to alienate your potential customer base?

Because to me you are coming across as a Stern hater an a bit of a dick

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I couldn't agree more with Retropin and Olivia Jason, but it is obvious we're dealing with a firm believer who is going to see a full glass when there are only a few drops in it. That's still fine, so let's agree to disagree.

are you trying to alienate your potential customer base?

Because to me you are coming across as a Stern hater an a bit of a dick

 

Maybe

[PinballMagazine]

I couldn't agree more with Retropin and Olivia Jason, but it is obvious we're dealing with a firm believer who is going to see a full glass when there are only a few drops in it. That's still fine, so let's agree to disagree.

are you trying to alienate your potential customer base?

Because to me you are coming across as a Stern hater an a bit of a dick

You're as much entitled to your opinion as I am. I'm don't hate Stern but I don't think they put out great games either (although there are a few exceptions, such as AC/DC). That is my personal opinion and I respect your opinion. So we don't like the same games. That's fine, no big deal. I may have a different choice in what about I like in women than you. Thank God for that because if we all liked the same woman that would be a serious problem.

So I found most of their games boring, not well executed, uninspired, too much multiball, too long ball times, and I can go on. That is my personal opinion and experience with their games. That doesn't mean I like each and every game B/W or another manufacturer put out. I strongly believe (and every single designer will agree with me) that the product put out by a (in this case pinball)company reflects how much fun the designteam had in designing the game. I do sense that the same designers at B/W had a lot more fun in their work than when they were working at Stern. The designers I spoke with over the years all have confirmed that. The difference is like working late hours because you're having so much fun and want to continue, or working late hours because your boss tells you to because he thinks you're not working fast enough. That difference in working environment will show in the product put out.

Apart from judging the product put out I also look at the side effects. Let's say the pinball operator market was still 100% in 1999, and within a few years 50% of the operators don't want to buy new games anymore because of their experiences with the games from the remaining company, what does that tell you? You may still think Striker Xtreme or High Roller Casino are great games, but on location they weren't such big hits. They're still of the same quality the same factory put out when they were Sega. You may appreciate those games. The only upside for collectors of those games is that they are able to buy 10 of those games for the same amount of money as they would spend on a Medieval Madness. That has to say something about how those games generally are received. You may still think they're the best thing ever, but if they were wouldn't their prices be a lot higher?

Since your doubting my professionalism: my opinion on what I think of Stern Pinball, or any manufacturer, will not be expressed through the magazine. The magazine is not about me, but about the people who work(ed) behind the scenes of the pinball industry, collectors and/or people who support the hobby today in a way lots of other can enjoy the same hobby. I even have copy editors who will edit any partial copy or questions into neutral copy. In issue 1 you'll find an article on a guy who collects Game Plan pinball machines. Guess what: Game Plan gets no love at all. Still I thought it would be a great feature in the magazine. The guy has been a great help and I look forward to spotlighting more specialty collectors with 'odd' collections. In the magazine I'm not judging. I let people talk about their passion and leave the judging (if any) to the readers. You may choose not to want to read what they have to say, for whatever personal reason, but you may be missing out on a great read.

[Homepin]

Well put Jonathan.

Don't worry, I also cop a lot of flak because 'some' either don't like what I say or don't like what I think.…..some tell me I should just shut up and keep my opinions to myself...

Don't worry about Cavey stealing your woman - he likes boys hahahahaha - JOKING!!!! 

[Caveoftreasures]

STERN men.lol  NOT 

I do like Steve Ritchie and John Borg. AC/DC and X Men games are very good.

If George Gomez produces a killer title, I will like him too !

I am sure my wife would like to get rid of me. She probably hopes I go to the Stern factory and never come back. 

[Olivia_jason]

 

[Caveoftreasures]

Stern has only 3 titles in production, but 11 machine variants for sale via its dealers ! (All models listed are for sale via dealers in the USA.)
TRON will make a short rerun around end November/December.

Not a bad effort. Lots to choose from with only 3 titles but 11 variations.

The 3 x titles are - TRANSFORMERS, AC/DC and X MEN

Variants are

Transformers Pro
Transformers LE
Transformers Decepticon
Transformers Autobot 

AC/DC Pro
AC/DC Premium
AC/DC LTB Rock
AC/DC BI Black

X MEN Pro
X MEN Wolverine
X MEN Magneto

Will there be another title before Xmas, other than TRON which will make it 12 variants for sale plus a possible 3 more variants with Avengers or whatever the unknown next title is ????

[PinballMagazine]

It looks like you can add another Transformers model: http://www.amazon.com/Stern-Pinball-9386-Transformers-Table/dp/B009AVLBS0/ref=sr_1_5?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1349047379&sr=1-5

What you are saying about people having lots of choice isn't completely accurate. I have heard several distributors complain they don't know what to order anymore, so they stick with 1 type and maybe add add a variant if requested. That doesn't give collectors much choice.

[Caveoftreasures]

It looks like you can add another Transformers model: http://www.amazon.com/Stern-Pinball-9386-Transformers-Table/dp/B009AVLBS0/ref=sr_1_5?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1349047379&sr=1-5

What you are saying about people having lots of choice isn't completely accurate. I have heard several distributors complain they don't know what to order anymore, so they stick with 1 type and maybe add add a variant if requested. That doesn't give collectors much choice.

They must be pretty dumb dealers if they cant look up a web page. Even my 12 year old daughter could find the below link/page.
STERN would be sending these dealers lots of sales offers for anything and everything they have ready in boxes surely ?

http://www.sternpinball.com/Games.aspx

[Strangeways]

Couple of points that need correction ;

Williams and Gottlieb were cashed up when they closed their doors. They did not go broke. The industry completely changed. Williams moved funds to their slot machine division - which still exists today. Stern have NEVER been in a "cashed up" position to close their doors, and would need a Few more AC/DC "big sellers" in quick succession to do so. Remember, Stern almost went broke until investors stepped in a few years ago.

Even in the 70's, Stern didn't innovate from EM to SS. They simply copied Bally's boardset to the point that the basic board sets can be swapped into a Bally. That set the tone for Sterns future that would end up continuing into today. No innovation, and no originality. Stern have been LAZY since the competition moved on to better things (in terms of their Business model). So Stern set the standard, and complacency set in. Ironically, along comes JJP, and Stern lift their game (AC/DC). Stern have always been followers, and never leaders. Stern can never be compared to the "big boys" - Williams, Gottlieb and Bally.

I might sound critical of Stern, but I'm simply correcting some assumptions on the thread. I would LOVE to own a NIB Stern one day. I'm glad they stuck around while the others moved in to a more profitable industry.

Things are "hotting up" because JPP have arrived. Now let's see Stern's response to the competition. Hopefully it won't be the price rise per unit I keep hearing about 

[Caveoftreasures]

You are probably correct. I think its impossible for anyone to really know what financial position Williams Pinball was in when they called it a day unless you were working in the accounts dept. That pinball subsidiary of Williams might have been in the black or in the red, but it is unlikely that any business closes its doors on a profitable business. Perhaps they were breaking even, or trading dollars for dollars, but the last 3 years of production were low, albeit better figures than the other manufacturers were doing anyway.

The last few machines they sold over a 3 year period, making it a average of only 2 new titles per year, compared to their average of 4 titles per year, were

Star Wars Episode 1 - 3525 units
Tales of the Arabian Nights - 3128
Junk Yard - 3013
Medieval Madness - 4016
No Good Gofers - 2711 
Monster Bash -  3361

Perhaps Williams was smart enough to pull the pin when they did, before they started suffering large financial losses. Pin2000 didnt do the figures, so what were they to do next to get figures right up again ? Its a good question because it seems after producing beautiful games like Monsterbash, MediEvil Madness, Junkyard and TOTAN, they still couldnt get the numbers they needed. If you produce great machines like the ones I have just mentioned, and you still cant get the numbers up, its not the product, its the market who had moved on sadly to X Box n Playstation.

Even so, it would have been nice to have worked at Williams in its hey day, seeing games like Twilight Zone going down the production line, month after month. Dam it would be nice to have a time machine.

Oneday next year I might get to sitdown with Gary Stern and ask him 20 x questions. Then I will know some more about Stern.

[PinballMagazine]

It looks like you can add another Transformers model: http://www.amazon.com/Stern-Pinball-9386-Transformers-Table/dp/B009AVLBS0/ref=sr_1_5?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1349047379&sr=1-5

What you are saying about people having lots of choice isn't completely accurate. I have heard several distributors complain they don't know what to order anymore, so they stick with 1 type and maybe add add a variant if requested. That doesn't give collectors much choice.

They must be pretty dumb dealers if they cant look up a web page. Even my 12 year old daughter could find the below link/page.
STERN would be sending these dealers lots of sales offers for anything and everything they have ready in boxes surely ?

http://www.sternpinball.com/Games.aspx

Sure they know what games are available in what variation. They just don't know which version to order / they can sell. Will the Rolling Stones want the Pro model or the LE? How should they know? They never dealt with Rolling Stones fans before. 4 versions of X-men? They have no clue if they can even sell an LE Wolverine, or to who. That's what is making it difficult. They rather see just 1 model like it used to be for years.

[Olivia_jason]

That pinball subsidiary of Williams might have been in the black or in the red, but it is unlikely that any business closes its doors on a profitable business

corperate guys are funny they close even profitable departments just on the fact of less profit than the year before, so it could be millions of bucks in the black but might have been down abit so they close it and move to departments to use all their power on a department that make the mega bucks like Slots as strangeways says.
its silly and unfortunate i guess.

anyways im not sure if playstation and xbox really harm these things like pinball, remember Nintendo and sega and playstation were all around in every single house in the low to mid nineties and we were all playing them to death back then. its not that difference.
i have an xbox360 iphone pc's and all the simular crap that i had in the 90's when  arcades were popular in the 90's and still play pinball.

I blame the Problem purely on the lack of good marketing. there is no B/w doign their good marketing so pinball has suffered.
Heylets face it the Ipad ipod and xbox are all things we can live with out however good marketing has meant we bought some shit we dont really need but think we do. Even mcdonalds can make the worlds shittiest hamburger and sell it to billions of people, ITS ALL ABOUT MARKETING, Look at the skate boards kids are riding around on now, they are riding those old little one kick retro skateboards fro mthe 70's and into city beach and look at the price of one, they pay $300 for one, lol and all the kids in my area have one. Marketing is the key and retro is cool atm.

I know kids are interested by pinball because my sited pinball makes a killing, most have never seen or played one besides on their playstation and they all say its better than playing the playstation.

I do hold High hopes for pinball, i honestly cant see a reason for them not make a come back, and i think stern can get their shit together eventually and id like to think they read these forums and see what people are saying and might get the idea of whats wanted in a pinball.

as ive said millions of times here Retro is making a huge come back and Pinball is the essence of retro, stern just need to capitalize on it now, and maby they are as acdc was a smart title to kick it off, but they need a none licensed title with innovation now.

[PinballMagazine]

You are probably correct. I think its impossible for anyone to really know what financial position Williams Pinball was in when they called it a day unless you were working in the accounts dept. That pinball subsidiary of Williams might have been in the black or in the red, but it is unlikely that any business closes its doors on a profitable business. Perhaps they were breaking even, or trading dollars for dollars, but the last 3 years of production were low, albeit better figures than the other manufacturers were doing anyway.

The last few machines they sold over a 3 year period, making it a average of only 2 new titles per year, compared to their average of 4 titles per year, were

Star Wars Episode 1 - 3525 units
Tales of the Arabian Nights - 3128
Junk Yard - 3013
Medieval Madness - 4016
No Good Gofers - 2711  
Monster Bash -  3361

Perhaps Williams was smart enough to pull the pin when they did, before they started suffering large financial losses. Pin2000 didnt do the figures, so what were they to do next to get figures right up again ? Its a good question because it seems after producing beautiful games like Monsterbash, MediEvil Madness, Junkyard and TOTAN, they still couldnt get the numbers they needed. If you produce great machines like the ones I have just mentioned, and you still cant get the numbers up, its not the product, its the market who had moved on sadly to X Box n Playstation.

Even so, it would have been nice to have worked at Williams in its hey day, seeing games like Twilight Zone going down the production line, month after month. Dam it would be nice to have a time machine.

Oneday next year I might get to sitdown with Gary Stern and ask him 20 x questions. Then I will know some more about Stern.

You're obviously missing a very big point: Since 1989 Bally and Williams were the same company. You can't just look at the last Williams games and neglect the Bally titles. It was the same pinball division, they just used two different brand names.
You may get some new insights if you read what Roger Sharpe is saying about the last years of the WMS pinball division in Pinball Magazine. The graphic chart with sales figures in the magazine may also give you a bit more insight.

20 questions to Gary?  Show me the questions and I'll bet you I (and many others) can tell you exactly the answers he will give you.
Just as a heads up: I've been in the Stern factory: you'll probably lose your religion. It's almost like if you know how they make sausages, you'll never eat one again :)

[Freiherr]

anyways im not sure if playstation and xbox really harm these things like pinball, remember Nintendo and sega and playstation were all around in every single house in the low to mid nineties and we were all playing them to death back then. its not that difference.
i have an xbox360 iphone pc's and all the simular crap that i had in the 90's when  arcades were popular in the 90's and still play pinball.

The threat to pinball in the 1980s (as an example) was not poor marketing but the onslaught of Space Invaders and video arcade games.
Williams Black Knight was a critical pin in 1980. Read the last quote from Steve Ritchie in the following thread:
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=9380.msg121527#msg121527