Author Topic: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012  (Read 5060 times)

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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2012, 12:52:49 PM »
Good articles.

I didnt include Bally with the last Williams titles being produced, cause I dont know if Bally and Williams ran out of the same factory, and if the two businesses were run seperately on paper or not for those years. An answer for this question needs to come from someone who was there in the day, with real knowledge to help back it up ? Example, what titles were produced under the same roof, and if they were, which i doubt and wonder about, why brand the machines for 15 years under seperate labels, Bally, then Williams seperately ???  !@#
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Offline Olivia_jason

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2012, 12:57:00 PM »
Quote
anyways im not sure if playstation and xbox really harm these things like pinball, remember Nintendo and sega and playstation were all around in every single house in the low to mid nineties and we were all playing them to death back then. its not that difference.
i have an xbox360 iphone pc's and all the simular crap that i had in the 90's when  arcades were popular in the 90's and still play pinball.

The threat to pinball in the 1980s (as an example) was not poor marketing but the onslaught of Space Invaders and video arcade games.
Williams Black Knight was a critical pin in 1980. Read the last quote from Steve Ritchie in the following thread:
http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=9380.msg121527#msg121527

yer because that was all new and the only place you could play both was in an arcade with that new high tech machine sitting beside an old pinball, look at the low to mid nineties, and how many fantastic consoles were made then, every one having pc's in the house unlike the 80's were only selected few did. it was a revolution for gaming, but pinball had that resurrection at that point. its very similar to how it is now, and to be honest every one is starting to get a bit tired of the technology, these things always come around in circles imo. and plus good marketers can use the technology against its self to market pinball. whilest we are tired up with this technology that doesnt mean there is no room for anything else, the silly thing is to compare a pinball machine to the iphone, tell customers thats the market you are fighting against is iphone is a stupid move, its a totally different market,and they should seperate them selves from that sort of thinking.
 if you think having pinball game on an iphone makes it the same as pinball you are wrong, if anything that helps it grow and people will want to play the real thing. its Always down to marketing, have you ever used Itunes?? its a bloody nightmare and a pile of crap yet the marketers make you think its the best thing since sliced bread. Marketing is where the problem is and part of that is making Titles that are more attractive to a new Audience
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 01:01:55 PM by Olivia_jason »

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2012, 01:13:21 PM »
For interest, x box was released late november 2001 and playstation early jan 1995

pinball companies would have started feeling the effects within 12 months, around early 1996 from P/S gaming consoles.

the decline in pinball sales is reflected around this time.

(I wish playstation and x box were never released personally)  @.@
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Offline Olivia_jason

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2012, 01:33:28 PM »
For interest, x box was released late november 2001 and playstation early jan 1995

pinball companies would have started feeling the effects within 12 months, around early 1996 from P/S gaming consoles.

the decline in pinball sales is reflected around this time.

(I wish playstation and x box were never released personally)  @.@

no but you had, sega, sega mega drive,sega saturns, Nintendo, super Nintendo, Nintendo 64 and others, and at least every house hold had one or more of them. plus you had that revolution of Pc gaming.
come on you cant deny that marketing cant change the direction of trends.

but as stated you saw those pacman games kick pinballs ass in the 80s then pinball found its spot again in the late 80's early nineties and made that huge comeback, if gaming made its attack again on pinball in the late 90's with its next revolution then its a huge failure of pinball not to have done what it did in the early nineties to pull its self back into the game, but also you see the guys who made it happen like B/W give up and go to gaming machines.
there is nothing stopping pinball succeeding other than the pinball makers at this time and their marketing issues. you cant deny that

Offline Strangeways

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2012, 04:29:51 PM »

The decline of pinball had nothing to do with console games. The decline started in the early 80's with the advent of Space Invaders, Galaxian, Asteroids and Pac Man. The rot was well and truly "set in". Console games that came on the scene years later emulated video games, and not pinball. Video games started the decline.

What's my source ? I saw our LAST pinball container opened in 1980 ish - the last pinball container arrived full of NIB Ballys, Gottliebs and Sterns.

The next container that arrived was full of Videos - Space Invaders clones, Pac Mans, Tempest etc etc.. Not ONE pinball.

I do recall in 1984 ish, a container filled with Fathoms, Medusa, Eight Ball Deluxes etc etc was left in the USA and not imported. ANOTHER container of Vids replaced it. That was the start of the end. The 70s-80s was the glory days that the 90's would never see. What the major manufacturers did in the 90's was on a much smaller scale - but nevertheless - this period would be the hardest for them as Videos killed off the pinball industry.

I still remember the days of a dozen solid states in every second Arcade, and then the horrific sight of cocktail tables and upright videos that replaced them. It was very hard for the pinball manufacturers in the 90's. But Williams were definitely still profitable in the late 90's and could have kept going with pinball. But they had shareholders to look after.
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Offline Freiherr

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2012, 05:03:34 PM »
Sounds spot on.
I started playing pinball in the late 60s and Gottlieb was king and then Bally and Williams took the reins in the late 70s early 80s.
Space Invaders, Pac Man and Gallaga  were the top 3 pinball killers that I remember at the time.
Arcades were changing in the 80s with less pinball and more video games.
Computers and consoles then dealt a second blow to the arcades as kids could now play in the comforts of their parents home.
It's a bit like what home theaters are doing to cinemas and what videos and dvds did to drive-ins .
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Offline pinnies4me

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2012, 06:53:27 PM »

..... I think its impossible for anyone to really know what financial position Williams Pinball was in when they called it a day unless you were working in the accounts dept.


No, public company, information is out there. Could start with this http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/76/76037/reports/wms_042301.pdf (page 12) and look for other information if you really want it, it is out there. Pinball was losing money, and a public company has shareholders to answer to, and saw better opportunities in other areas of gaming. Watch "TILT: The Battle to Save Pinball" they go through some of the financial losses (not in depth though).

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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2012, 08:20:21 PM »
Well, since that document is from the accounts dept or its accountants,lol, it will do fine. I was keen Nick to get a better understanding of the past with Williams, but not to the point of looking for documents. But its good u were able to locate those details.
The point i was making on a past post, is that without real documents, real numbers, its speculation and anybodys guess.
It does seem to clearly show the pinball business had lost money if I am reading it correctly with a quick glance ?

Everything in the pinball section comes under the heading of losses. In any event, I dont think it comes as much of a surprise. The figures seem to be extremely low for a very large pinball operation. At best towards the end, they were trading dollars for dollars and going nowhere, before the small losses. I wonder if figures for Data East are available.?

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Offline Freiherr

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Re: STERN Production to date - 1999 to 2012
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2012, 08:46:30 PM »
This is a very interesting post because at the heart of it you are all talking about pinball and it's survival in an ever changing world. Other industries and companies go through similar trauma and changes, take for example Fender guitars. What have guitars got to do with pinball you may ask. Well, if you read the following article, the parallel of Fender with a company like Williams is unmistakable.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/business/fender-aims-to-stay-plugged-in-amid-changing-music-trends.html?pagewanted=all
I often wonder how guys like Jersey Jack have the guts to start such a risky and didifficult venture of pinball manufacture.
If you employ at least 20 talented design people and just as many production staff, the wage bill is fairly hefty especially when you first start up. How could you run a profit if you do not sell 3 or 4 titles or 20,000 units per annum?
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If you don't remember anything,  then read about it here,