Author Topic: Stern's next pinball  (Read 7442 times)

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Offline ktm450

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2013, 08:52:32 PM »
No I haven't played WOZ  :lol and AC/DC premium is a great game, but I should have explained myself better, as we were originally discussing build quality not game titles although I did reference them.

Build quality and fine details there is no comparison, I hope the competition when it arrives, gives Stern a benchmark to aim for.  No matter the titles, like you said the competition has got to be good for the hobby.

Offline GORGAR 1

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2013, 09:31:06 PM »
No I haven't played WOZ  :lol and AC/DC premium is a great game, but I should have explained myself better, as we were originally discussing build quality not game titles although I did reference them.

Build quality and fine details there is no comparison, I hope the competition when it arrives, gives Stern a benchmark to aim for.  No matter the titles, like you said the competition has got to be good for the hobby.

I do hope the overall build quality is as good as a lot are saying and let's not kid ourselves there will be issues and code updates just like stern because its pinball guys! Will they outlast stern I'll check back in 5 years :-) proto's sound good but mass production is different.
P:S I like JJP and stern but just being fair :-)


Peter

Offline Retropin

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2013, 09:36:25 PM »
Well im that there will not be any code updates necessary.. id like at least ONE company to release a COMPLETE title..and lets be fair.. theyve had long enough to finalise the code.
No excuses.. game should be complete before its released and JJP need to lead not follow

Offline GORGAR 1

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2013, 09:54:46 PM »
Well im that there will not be any code updates necessary.. id like at least ONE company to release a COMPLETE title..and lets be fair.. theyve had long enough to finalise the code.
No excuses.. game should be complete before its released and JJP need to lead not follow

Will be very interesting to see in regards to code updates

Peter

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2013, 10:28:01 PM »
A few points.

1.  WOZ will not ship with finished code. JJP have said that because they NEED to get the machines out. Ofcourse, like any pinball manufacturer, there will be updates reported back to JJP from Joe Public as people play the game more n more etc. Its not a big deal that JJP will be doing and releasing code updates to the WOZ machines after they hit peoples homes, but the comparison was made to show that JJP originally bagged Stern for doing this, and now they are doing it themselves. Its easy to sit on the outside and point fingers at Stern and say u can do better, but when the time came, JJP couldnt. (who cares about code updates or corrections anyway, its not a big deal, everything in 2013 gets an occassional update)

2. The original price point JJP discussed was a machine for around $5,000 USA (or $6600 Australian) and JJPs mission was to create a better machine for a better price compared to Stern. It didnt happen, they have a widebody that is now around $4,000 dearer than the Pro machine Stern has. *Thats the $4,000 Australian price difference, nothing to do with upgrading WOZ models for $500 which someone mentioned.

I will say here, again, no big deal, JJP tried to do a budget model in their original think tank, it didnt happen, they have produced a widebody, its alot dearer, some have bought it, others definately wont cause its almopst $10,500 Aust to buy one now, whioch I think is a bad marketing decision cause u now have to pay more to buy a Woz non LE for a dearer price compared to the Woz LE etc.
But JJP now have marketed themselves as the quality, high end manufacturer, which has won them some praise, but they should have a Pro model to compete with Stern, and if they dont do it, it will be a mistake. Its early days anyway.

At the end of the day, we as consumers will all win. JJP and Stern want our money bad, and over time, both companies will develop and change and will mrph into better marketing entities to get our brand new in box dollars. Its early days, things will get better and better and better, cause competition always gives better pricing n products, and there is a new in box home use market re-assurgence which will drive better pinnys at better prices with better features.

Last but not least, Sterns 4 flavours, being Pro, Premium, and  LE x 2 variants is smart, because it caters to a wider audience, and people with different requirements now get a choice and a opportunity to spend. I know many people who own Pros, Premiums and LE 's, so their marketing is both switched on and working, cause its getting people to buy brand new in box, and it caters for all types. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and alot of people have various new Sterns at home. If they had a one model only phiolsophy, it would cut overall volume/sales down alot.

Could things get cheaper accross the industry, yes, will it happen, doubt it...
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 10:32:03 PM by Caveoftreasures »
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2013, 10:58:51 PM »
Apples for Apples - As Matt said, the only comparison for WOZ is a Stern Premium. Not a Pro. That's common sense. They are both similar in pricing, but WOZ is a widebody.
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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2013, 11:16:33 PM »
JJP priced themselves to the very top end, and not by design, but by having no choice. WOZ now has to compete with the LE Stern model.

But originally, their product was supposed to take on Sterns Pro model. Somewhere along the way, JJP realised they couldnt build this super dooper machine with all their trimmings to beat Stern at their own game. Luckily for JJP, they had the LE to compete with which hid their initial failure to beat Stern at the Pro model level. Jacks original design brief wasnt to build a 10 grand machine, it just ended up that way. Hence the price increases etc for the 2nd model, and the fact that u pay heavily for the same models if u dont pre-order.

I still want to see a JJP Pro model, that is better than a Stern Pro model, with better everything, at a better price. That was the originall JJP plan, but along the way, something went very skew wiff.
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Offline Freiherr

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2013, 11:35:31 PM »
Themes and quality aside, JJP lost me with the need to pay up front into something that was yet to be built and tested. I went down the ACDC track, enjoyed 12 months of a great pin, pocketed a few grand as I could have made at least 10% on the money tied up with JJP.
I would be frustrated to wits end having to go through the long wait. Any guys who have WOZ on order, I realy feel your long wait and do hope in the end it was all worthwhile with a good and rewarding machine.
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Offline Wotto

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2013, 10:25:29 AM »
I would be frustrated to wits end having to go through the long wait.

Trust me - I know 2 guys personally that are on the list and one of them is REALLY fed up with the wait, on top of that I am told the ‘private WOZ forum’ is very dead. Apparently at Chicago Expo JJP was copping gobfuls from quite a few US buyers that were VERY angry , with one guy having to be ejected from a JJP speech for constantly interrupting asking where is his game etc ( yes a bit of a dickhead thing to do but hey , it shows the level of frustration )

On the Stern front I am anxious and keen to see the next model as like most , I believe it to be Metallica , which I would buy for sure. I go into this purchase fully understanding up front that Sterns quality control has not been the greatest of late , however the issues aren’t MASSIVE game breakers that I have personally seen and I am happy to proceed at this point with my fist ever NIB purchase. As seen with AC DC numerous mods become available to make things look better down the track a little , and for me that’s part of the fun anyway.



Now watch me , I will be lucky enough to get the 1st ever NIB complete electrical dud
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Offline pinsanity

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2013, 10:38:14 AM »
Trust me - I know 2 guys personally that are on the list and one of them is REALLY fed up with the wait, on top of that I am told the ‘private WOZ forum’ is very dead.

789 members and 840 posts in February.

Not bad for a private forum.  &&

Offline Freiherr

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2013, 11:12:59 AM »

Now watch me , I will be lucky enough to get the 1st ever NIB complete electrical dud


No concerns here. I bought 2 NIBs and no major dramas especially with the care and service from Bruce and team at AMD.

As an example, I had a Hulk LE on order and it came with a damaged head box. Apparently when they were loading container in USA the damage occured. Bruce got on to Stern with photos and they said they would build brand new headbox and ship to AMD in 10 days.
To their word, I picked up fully tested machine in the promised time and the machine is a cracker. Well tuned, not a speck or mark and a credit to Stern and AMD.




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Offline Pintoxicated

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2013, 11:18:15 AM »
How many of
Trust me - I know 2 guys personally that are on the list and one of them is REALLY fed up with the wait, on top of that I am told the ‘private WOZ forum’ is very dead.

789 members and 840 posts in February.

Not bad for a private forum.  &&


How many of those 840 posts were for WOZ and how many were against WOZ i.e. over waiting to get a machine they have invested heavily in?
Addicted to pins.

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2013, 05:20:15 PM »
someone said some guy gave JJP a hard time at his WOZ launch and kept asking where his machine was etc, this is why Stern release products in a timely manner without the code being a million percent, cause u can easily upgrade the code later, and its best to ship the machines to people who have paid monies.

When i prepaid for my AC/DC BNIB, i was happy to get the machine straight away, and do my own code upgrades which is soo simple to do, versus waiting and waiting and waiting for my machine that i have paid for, then to be kept getting told we havent finished the code yet so u cant have your machine.

Updating code later and sending out machines that still play excellent with early code anyway, is the smart move. People can add code, but if the machine isnt in your home, and still sitting at a factory, that would annoy people more than having the choice to take a machine now, and upgrade your own software. Also, because it takes 30 days on seafreight, by the tiome the Stern machines get here from the USA, AMD can do the upgrade anyway so everyone wins. Also some people forget, its joe public who helps Stern with code updates via feedback, and Stern cant possibly do everything without imput from the public etc.

The next Stern will need a code upgrade like all the others, but no big deal. Also, people forget that even Williams, bally, Sega, Data East, Gottlieb all did the same thing, so why all of a sudden is this code upgrading a big deal ?
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Offline Freiherr

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2013, 05:38:00 PM »

The next Stern will need a code upgrade like all the others, but no big deal. Also, people forget that even Williams, bally, Sega, Data East, Gottlieb all did the same thing, so why all of a sudden is this code upgrading a big deal ?

+1
In the past couple of months, I updated the firmware for Sharp 70 inch TV, Samsung DVD, Samsung Galaxy Tablet, Samsung Galaxy phone and software for Windows 8 and Stern ACDC.
I also do not understand what the big deal is. Be thankful that todays leading companies are supporting their customers.
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Offline GORGAR 1

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Re: Stern's next pinball
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2013, 06:16:06 PM »

The next Stern will need a code upgrade like all the others, but no big deal. Also, people forget that even Williams, bally, Sega, Data East, Gottlieb all did the same thing, so why all of a sudden is this code upgrading a big deal ?

+1
In the past couple of months, I updated the firmware for Sharp 70 inch TV, Samsung DVD, Samsung Galaxy Tablet, Samsung Galaxy phone and software for Windows 8 and Stern ACDC.
I also do not understand what the big deal is. Be thankful that todays leading companies are supporting their customers.

Well said I've been saying this for ages we live in a "update world" there's other agenda's.

Peter