Xpin Products - Who Wants What?

[soundasleep]

I'm sure almost everybody here has at least heard of the fantastic range of products sold by XPin (http://xpinpinball.com/)

I've been in discussion with Brett about becoming their first Australian reseller and we are trying to judge which products would be the best to bring over.

The obvious one, and the whole point of the exercise is their LED DMD replacements. http://xpinpinball.com/products/displays/NEW-XP-DMD4096LV-W

Low Voltage Version (XP-DMD4096LV-W) is a definite. Is there anybody here who has been considering one for either a video-pin project or a newer Stern machine?

Then for older 65V systems there is the Basic Version (XP-DMD4096-W). It makes perfect sense to bring these other, but again, trying to gauge interest.

These would be $399 at current exchange rates.

Now because of the known problems with the 65V system in the WPC and WPC89 series it also makes sense to carry the XP-WPCDMD-CTRL Controller Board - which would be $139.

They have range of replacement power supply boards and replacement Alphanumeric displays but there would need to be adequate interest to justify looking at any of those.

So what do people think?

[Marty Machine]

LOL i was trying to arrange the very same thing with Brett 2+ years ago as he wasn't happy with Waynes performance in Aus.
I wondered myself why such a great product range wasn't being represented well here in Aus....and found out why....

Sadly the outlay to buy from brett is far too expensive for a very minimal profit margin, and in fact to discount pricing enough to be attractive to Aus buyers means you lose your margin.
I wasn't prepared to pay $350 for a unit that retails for $399, considering shipping alone negates the margin. He should be wholesaling at $200-$250 for a $399 retail item, but even worse nowadays with poor economic/pinball clilmate they'll be very hard to move.

Xpin pricing obviously becomes cheaper if you buy 100's from him, but who has $50-100k to do that as a hobby?
Sadly Brett won't budge with his pricing to potential distributors, he should just sell direct to the world and be done with it....he's shot himself in the foot too often already with his greedy business structure.

I had a spare $10k at the time, but that wasn't gonna buy me 10 complete sets of scores to get things started, it wasn't enough value for my money so i opted out.
As a hobby project, i couldn't justify that kind of risk.

The fact you're posting an "expressions of interest" post indicates to me you're already concerned about the financial risks with bringing those items into Aus....

Sorry, been there, done that :-(
MM

[Homepin]

He should be wholesaling at $200-$250 for a $399 retail item

I can assure you that in batches of around 1000 units they cannot be manufactured for AU$200 cost price (even in China) - believe me I know!

[soundasleep]

The fact you're posting an "expressions of interest" post indicates to me you're already concerned about the financial risks with bringing those items into Aus....

Bulls-eye. It's really just the DMD (both voltage versions) and the replacement WPC controller board that I'd like to use for my own products, and offer to other Australian enthusiasts - but I figured I might as well ask about everything else.

Profit margins certainly aren't great, but on 3 SKUs that compliment the rest of my products, I think I could live with it.

The real probblem is most of our capital has gone into part fabrication - thus the question. I'd basically need 10 pre-orders to be able to make it happen...

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I would not be buying an Xpin DMD replacement in the future
I bought 2, both had dead pixels out of the box

you will need to factor in returns to your business plan

[soundasleep]

Did you eventually get 100% working displays?

[Pop Bumper Pete]

He offered to send me a replacement LED square so I could repair it, but my soldering skills are not that good

Soon after, Mike announced he was making his replacement DMDs,
Mikes will not have the 'grid' that Xpins do
I think when Mike releases his version no one will want the xpin ones

[soundasleep]

I'm inclined to agree with you, but how far away are Mike's from availability? There is demand right now for replacement DMDs and real DMD options for video-pins.

It's looking like it would be just the DMDs I'd bring over - just enough to tide us over ;)

But of course if nobody wants one, there is no point.

[Homepin]

I intend to include my replacement DMD in Thunderbirds Pinball due for release mid 2015. It is my goal to have them completed well before this but we are still working through it and I don't have any updates on the DMD project at this stage I'm afraid.

[Strangeways]

He offered to send me a replacement LED square so I could repair it, but my soldering skills are not that good

Soon after, Mike announced he was making his replacement DMDs,
Mikes will not have the 'grid' that Xpins do
I think when Mike releases his version no one will want the xpin ones

+1

I usually buy a few replacement DMDs (Not Xpin) to have in stock, but I will be supporting Mike's DMD project and stocking up on his 

[soundasleep]

I usually buy a few replacement DMDs (Not Xpin) to have in stock, but I will be supporting Mike's DMD project and stocking up on his 

It's great to be getting some input on this from the experts :)

What DMD's do you use, mate? And can I ask if there is a particular reason you haven't used/tried an XPin one?

The main trick for video-pins is the 65V. Such a pain to have to add another power supply just for one system. If that was a cheap fix I'd probably just stick with locally sourced plasma DMD's. Although I do love the way you can "colour up" the XPin's.

[Marty Machine]

I can assure you that in batches of around 1000 units they cannot be manufactured for AU$200 cost price (even in China) - believe me I know!

Yep, it's sad when china can't even provide them for $10 out of the factory....
When China's pricing starts rising, the world will stop and we're all screwed....

Ho hum...Earth, you gotta love it :-(

MM

[Strangeways]

I usually buy a few replacement DMDs (Not Xpin) to have in stock, but I will be supporting Mike's DMD project and stocking up on his 

It's great to be getting some input on this from the experts :)

What DMD's do you use, mate? And can I ask if there is a particular reason you haven't used/tried an XPin one?

The main trick for video-pins is the 65V. Such a pain to have to add another power supply just for one system. If that was a cheap fix I'd probably just stick with locally sourced plasma DMD's. Although I do love the way you can "colour up" the XPin's.

I sourced the Vishay displays from whoever had them on sale, or whoever I was ordering from - PBR or PBL. They are sometimes sold locally at severely inflated prices. I would not try Xpin due to price, availability and warranty issues (no Australian distributor).

[soundasleep]

That all makes sense. Points two and three would be solved if I carried them, but price is the sticking point.

VirtuaPin sells the Vishay for US$170 so even after buying a power board you're still over $100 up. The gel packs look pretty sweet from the photos, but that is a hefty premium.

[Homepin]

I have purchased all of the equipment and it will be installed and commissioned within a month for a complete, through hole assembly and automatic soldering line many pics of some of the equipment elsewhere on the site).

It is my intention to manufacture these in house in the Homepin factory so we will control quality in-house. The first product I will run when the line is ready will be the 24" opto board as this is a fairly simple board and should serve well to debug the process. After that probably trough opto boards for the same reason and then a run of WPC MPUs.

After these "easy" boards we will be very well organised and practised for the LED DMD.

It's impossible for me to put an exact timeline on any of it yet though.