Author Topic: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes  (Read 492 times)

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Offline Classicpinballs

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Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« on: January 07, 2013, 12:12:47 AM »
As the title says, I've got a problem in fitting this new board.

I bought the machine as a project and when I opened it up, I found the rectifier board was missing. All I have is the transformer and a bunch of wires left where the board was cut-off.

From opening the box with the new rectifier board in it, there is a schematic, but no mention of what wires need to go where  ::)  I dont have a schematic for the machine either so I'm stumped and I thought I'd ask the question here to see if there are other people who have suffered the same fate! The transformer has lugs that are numbered with said cables attached and none look to have been de-soldered at any time so I'm hopeful that all is well there.

Better still, does anyone know of a site that shows the correct wiring for this board?

Thank you, in anticipation!

Doug.

Offline beaky

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 12:26:12 AM »
should have bought a HOMEPIN rectifier board.  @@*
The name "ROTTEN DOG" says it all.
these after market boards that are not made in Australia are nothing but trouble or at least just a patch up job until you can find a proper replacement.
when you have seen as many as i have and the trouble that they cause you will understand what i mean especially when you have to send boards back because they just plain forgot to include must have components on their boards and instead of doing a recall they just wait until some one sends their board back then they supply a replacement.

I have lost count of how many machines i have repaired where the customer has bought an after market board and installed it to find out there are problems and they tell me "must be something wrong with my machine because it's a brand new board".

I don't know but i recon  for legal reasons we can't start a thread with a title "after market board name and it's know design fault"

there is one driver board that is designed and marketed by one company that causes a ridiculous amount of led ghosting on the playfield in any wpc95 machine that it is fitted in that has leds on the playfield inserts.
the ghosting is so bad that if you have standard incandescent lamps fitted instead of ghosting the lamps filaments of the lamps that are not supposed to be lit GLOW RED  !@#  ^&^    
When i contacted the manufacturer this was their reply
Hi Andrew,
thank you for your mail.
There is a software bug in all Williams7Bally WPC machines. In the lamp matrix the light time to the next column is overlap the old one. That mean the next column starts to light up before the old one is completly off.
With normal lamp bulbs you didn’t notice that. But if you place LEDs to the inserts you will see this effect because the LEDs are “faster”. Additional our board is usung MOSFETs instead of normal transistors. This will increace this effect too.
 

FYI it was for a Medieval Madness (wpc-95 not wpc)

and another one from another company

Hi
I am in the process of repairing a XXX-XXX Bally Voltage Regulator / Driver Board and I have a question regarding Q17 to Q19.
The gate for these 3 fets on the continuous solenoid circuits are directly connected to Connector J4 pins 9, 10 & 11 and use a pull down resistor on the gate.
All the fets are controlled through a 74hct154 binary decoder and a 74hct240 buffer invertor.

My problem is Q17 to Q19 need +5 volts on the gate to operate the solenoids they control but the output on the mpu board will send a low (0 volt) signal to these 3 fets so of course nothing happens.

What I would like to know is if I am correct in my above statement?

I have noticed that on the XXXXXX schematic the part of the circuit that controls these 3 fets have been modified to fix this problem so the voltage to the gates on these 3 fets are inverted so when J4 pins 9, 10 & 11 are pulled low the gates on Q 17 to Q 19 respectively are pulled high

If I am correct then I will modify the circuitry on the board I have to correct this problem.

Regards,
Andrew

Andrew.  If you have a solenoid driver board with XXXXXX printed on the board, return it to me and I will replace with the correct board.




hope these photos and link help. the photos are of a space invaders rectifier board and transformer with some modifications on the out put side

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/2252/Bally_1980_Space_Invaders_Manual.pdf
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 01:17:58 AM by beaky »
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Offline Homepin

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 04:33:24 AM »
I fitted one of my replacement boards to my Space Invaders here:



The "E" positions on my board are VERY clearly marked and the hole size is much larger to allow easy insertion of the wires. I'm pretty sure the 'E' positions are also marked clearly on the Rottendog board?

If you download the assembly instructions from my web page for this replacement board (towards the bottom of the page) it has some instructions and pictures that could be helpful here:

http://www.homepin.com/rectifierpcb.html

Here is a pic that is NOT on the website or in the manual that might help with the position of the wires - they are clearly marked as "E" points:



Here is a pic showing the wire colours AS WIRED IN MY OWN SPACE INVADERS (and it works after this install  %.%) so 'hopefully' the wire colours will be the same in yours?



This is the page from the S.I. schematic that shows the TX numbers and what "E" numbers they connect to on the board - pay attention to the double wires for E7,8,9,10 - this is clearer in my picture of the wired board above



Hope that all helps - If you need any additional info let me know.

Beaky is right, I have also seen some aftermarket boards that are touted as the best thing since sliced bread and they have been unrepairable because those making them may be brilliant engineers but seem to have ZERO real world experience in servicing! Pissy, fine PCB tracks and poorly laid out artwork, surface mounted parts. Bad design in a lot of ways BUT maximum profit - I suppose that's the aim? Just my opinion.

EDIT: Here is the board you have (I think?). You should be able to identify the correct points with the info above.



You should be able to download the manual for Bally Space Invaders here:

http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2252
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 08:50:42 AM by Homepin »
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Offline Boots

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 09:34:37 AM »
should have bought a HOMEPIN rectifier board.  @@*

+1

Offline Strangeways

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 10:02:06 AM »
should have bought a HOMEPIN rectifier board.  @@*

+1

+2

I have installed a HOMEPIN Rectifier PCB and it was a breeze to assemble and works perfectly.
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Offline Classicpinballs

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 08:48:02 PM »
Thanks for the replies, Guys. To be honest, I'd not heard of your boards before, which is a real shame as I've bought RD's replacement mpu/ds board for my WMS Jungle Lord. Not fitted yet, so cross your fingers for me...

I checked your wiring, thank you, and I also downloaded a Stern rectifier wiring guide. Everything matched, apart from the yellow lead that was on a different terminal. [This was yesterday afternoon and I cant remember which number  ::) ] The terminal that it should have gone onto had a jumper wire on it, coming, I think, number 3. But when looking closely at the yellow connection, it looked to be a factory connection so I took the chance and tried the board and it all worked fine %$%

I have all the playfield lamps out at the moment [not the GI] so I'm going to check the lamp driver connections [This was a project machine] but I have also bought new Altek mpu, lamp and solenoid driver boards for it, so as to make it as reliable as I can. [Now tell me these boards are no good too...  &^& ] I thought it best to try the machine using its old boards first, just in case I fried anything with the new rectifier board.

Anyway, thanks again for the help and advice. This is a very good and friendly forum [ unlike that well known US one] I wish you lot were a bit closer...

Offline Homepin

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 08:54:32 PM »
could have used this instead of the Altek - hahahahahahaahah

http://www.homepin.com/bally35.html

Good luck with the rebuild..all the best
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Offline beaky

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2013, 09:46:21 PM »
could have used this instead of the Altek - hahahahahahaahah

http://www.homepin.com/bally35.html

Good luck with the rebuild..all the best
I have used one of these my self and it is an excellent option.

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Offline pinball god

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 08:42:09 PM »
I don't have an issue with my SI but the rectifier looks lke a dogs breakfast. What do you recommend? Do most people replace the old ones as a matter of course or leave it f it works fine?
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Offline Homepin

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 09:13:55 PM »
I don't have an issue with my SI but the rectifier looks lke a dogs breakfast. What do you recommend? Do most people replace the old ones as a matter of course or leave it f it works fine?

I was so distraught by mine when I bought it that I designed and made the replacement you see in other posts. This is why (this is an actual picture of what mine was like when I got the machine home):




More details here:
http://www.homepin.com/rectifierpcb.html
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2013, 08:28:56 AM »
I don't have an issue with my SI but the rectifier looks lke a dogs breakfast. What do you recommend? Do most people replace the old ones as a matter of course or leave it f it works fine?

If it is the original PCB, it will need work. Just about every Bally from this era will need work. Post a pic or two ?
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Offline pinball god

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2013, 09:25:31 AM »
 Here is a quick pic I took today when counting lamp holders needed to buy. The rectifier seems to work ok I think. Replace it or not?
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2013, 09:30:21 AM »

Does not look too bad, Rob. These usually look like burnt out bird nests. All the connectors are STILL connectors - no direct soldering. Some of the fuse holders look tarnished. This would be repairable - most likely replace the fuse holders.

If it works, then I'd leave it for now.
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Offline Homepin

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2013, 09:34:12 AM »
I agree - it looks pretty good. Mine was a complete mess and the more I looked into it the worse it became.

Yours looks pretty tidy. I would be inclined to pull the board off the heatsink and go over all the solder joints. If the pins even 'look' a little tarnished it is painful - but cheap - to replace them.





Does not look too bad, Rob. These usually look like burnt out bird nests. All the connectors are STILL connectors - no direct soldering. Some of the fuse holders look tarnished. This would be repairable - most likely replace the fuse holders.

If it works, then I'd leave it for now.
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Offline pinball god

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Re: Space Invaders: Rottendog Rectifier board woes
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2013, 09:35:49 AM »
Thanks guys for the super fast responses. At least I can se my mind at ease over this. ^^^
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