Author Topic: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it  (Read 65622 times)

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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #135 on: February 13, 2016, 09:39:30 PM »
No doubt the dollar has caused massive hassles but everything has gone up.

A new JetSki last year I wanted was $16,990 on special. Exact same model 12 months later is $18,990 because of the dollar. Same with cars, pro rata same sort of increases across the board.

The prices u quote for brand new Sterns Nino are way under realistic prices for a fully imported USA product with GST & import duties & various fees added for shipping & customs etc.
You cannot seriously expect people to sell a 2015/2016 model product for the same money that you are selling refurbished 25 year old DMD games that are B & C titles that are not absolutely mint or barely used.

There has always been a conflict of interests between any pinball company I have known of who makes it living from doing up old pinball machines.
The prices are way high for refurbished stock from the 90,s and the prices for Sterns are set far too low but never on offer.

I have not see one single pinball business do this properly except AMD who sell BNIB Sterns, refurb Sterns, and pin us from every other era. Their pricing a were never contradictory.

Joe from interstate has also juggled it well but no other business yet has set realistic prices in my opinion because they are firmly in one camp or the other but never both and hence that's where the pricing conflict starts and rarely ever gets addressed in a balanced why buy pin businesses who don't evenly embrace and market both the Stern products or the older stuff happily side by side.
I have seen it dozens of times and it just never works out to balanced pricing that is even close to reality.
(Lots spell mistakes cause I.phone & bit rushed).

Welcome to the luxury market where nothing is ever a bargain.
Earn more or buy less. That's the only choice unfortunately.



In the 90's music CD's across the board, by all artists and record labels were priced around the $29 mark. Everyone left the prices up (Allen's, Brashes etc etc). Along came JB Hi Fi. They purchased exactly the same stock, at exactly the same price from exactly the same supplier. Their price was $23.99. Where are Brashes and Allen's these days (for that matter - everyone else).. So what was the big secret ? They MURDERED the opposition by buying more stock than everyone else and selling it cheaper.

Brashes - Sell 5 CDs a week for $29.99 - Lets say $10 profit.
JB - Sell 50 CDs a week for $23.99 - Let's say $4 profit.

So who is making more money ?

Brashes = $50
Jb Hi Fi = $200

Apply this to Stern - instead of making massive profits on low manufacturing numbers, why can't they lower their price and sell MORE volume ? There's no excuses here - they moved to a bigger plant, they employ more people, so they should be making more machines and more profits. A smart move would be to adopt the Jb Hi Fi model.

Case in point - anyone that thinks a machine costs US$6000 to make is kidding themselves. EVERYONE along the food chain is making money - the investors, the shareholders etc etc.. Stern are making a LOT of money making pinballs - first rule of business - if you are not making money then you won't survive very long !

Whats the difference between a Pro and an LE - a backglass, a plaque, a drop target here, and extra spinner there and a bash toy. HARDLY - $4000 worth. Then there's the extras - toppers, armor - Stern make a killing.

If Stern were realistic with their prices, and given how much I enjoy TWD LE and KISS LE (code permitting) - I would buy more games. If Stern dropped this 3 tier rubbish and made the LE the STANDARD - in line with everyone else before them, and sold them into the market for realistic prices (JB Hi Fi) they would be far far more successful, sell more games into homes and not create a price point where people are prepared to pay as much for a fully restored "A" or "B" title.

Recent Stern price hikes have created a mini rush for A, B, + C B/W titles as High End Restorations.

If Ghostbusters LE was $7500, Stern would make a killing. I'd buy one  ^^^
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Offline pinball god

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #136 on: February 13, 2016, 09:58:21 PM »
I'll just say this and I'm arguing Sterns price hikes, not currency rates which have nothing to do with increasing the usd price. Please answer this.

Why are old b/w pinballs sales going crazy and prices at stupid prices? I think......bnib prices too high otherwise you gotta agree new is trouble free.....yes? And secondly, people may prefer playing complete games re coding issue. There is also a possible third reason and I cannot backup with data or research but maybe creativity and fun factor. For me this is not so as I do like some Stern games but I'm hearing a lot of disappointment in taking stern not taking risks in introducing new innovations and tricks. All my car/pc/entertainment equipment purchases are based on improving my life, upgrading to be specific. Dunno if I've met anyone go out of their way to buy an XT computer by throwing away their current machine.....I could be wrong  
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 10:01:53 PM by pinball god »
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #137 on: February 13, 2016, 10:35:39 PM »
I'll just say this and I'm arguing Sterns price hikes, not currency rates which have nothing to do with increasing the usd price. Please answer this.

Why are old b/w pinballs sales going crazy and prices at stupid prices? I think......bnib prices too high otherwise you gotta agree new is trouble free.....yes? And secondly, people may prefer playing complete games re coding issue. There is also a possible third reason and I cannot backup with data or research but maybe creativity and fun factor. For me this is not so as I do like some Stern games but I'm hearing a lot of disappointment in taking stern not taking risks in introducing new innovations and tricks. All my car/pc/entertainment equipment purchases are based on improving my life, upgrading to be specific. Dunno if I've met anyone go out of their way to buy an XT computer by throwing away their current machine.....I could be wrong  

First of all - where is the evidence that they are going for stupid prices ? Ebay ? Ebay is bait for an unsuspecting buyer that learns that after their first pinball purchase - they have been ripped off !

From my point of view, and within my business, I've signed up B/W titles as High End Restorations that are surpassing Stern's Pro and Premium prices. Pinheads are buying games that they played when they were young. They identify with a period of their life, and they have saved up enough to buy an example of that machine. In 10 years time, a present day collector will be asking me to do the same with an AC/DC etc.

The reason Stern don't innovate as in decades past, is because people are happy to pay the current prices. Having said that, and back on topic - the "under the playfield ramp" is considered an innovation - and it took Trudeau to come up with it !

The XT Computer analogy - I sold my Commodore 64 original games on disk and cartridge 20 years ago. Those cartridges are worth a fortune these days. I have a super rare COMX-35 Computer - very rare and worth a lot of money. It is like anything - it is collectible after a few years. An original IBM X86 would be woth a small fortune, and I'm sure some people would take the trip down memory lane and play the original Sim City..
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Offline GORGAR 1

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #138 on: February 13, 2016, 10:41:18 PM »
WH20 on Gumtree 7.5k claims he spent 13k on resto lol would someone actually spend that on a 90's pin? Is there enough to replace to actually spend 13k? Crazy.

Offline pinball god

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #139 on: February 13, 2016, 11:27:34 PM »
I'll just say this and I'm arguing Sterns price hikes, not currency rates which have nothing to do with increasing the usd price. Please answer this.

Why are old b/w pinballs sales going crazy and prices at stupid prices? I think......bnib prices too high otherwise you gotta agree new is trouble free.....yes? And secondly, people may prefer playing complete games re coding issue. There is also a possible third reason and I cannot backup with data or research but maybe creativity and fun factor. For me this is not so as I do like some Stern games but I'm hearing a lot of disappointment in taking stern not taking risks in introducing new innovations and tricks. All my car/pc/entertainment equipment purchases are based on improving my life, upgrading to be specific. Dunno if I've met anyone go out of their way to buy an XT computer by throwing away their current machine.....I could be wrong  

First of all - where is the evidence that they are going for stupid prices ? Ebay ? Ebay is bait for an unsuspecting buyer that learns that after their first pinball purchase - they have been ripped off !

From my point of view, and within my business, I've signed up B/W titles as High End Restorations that are surpassing Stern's Pro and Premium prices. Pinheads are buying games that they played when they were young. They identify with a period of their life, and they have saved up enough to buy an example of that machine. In 10 years time, a present day collector will be asking me to do the same with an AC/DC etc.

The reason Stern don't innovate as in decades past, is because people are happy to pay the current prices. Having said that, and back on topic - the "under the playfield ramp" is considered an innovation - and it took Trudeau to come up with it !

The XT Computer analogy - I sold my Commodore 64 original games on disk and cartridge 20 years ago. Those cartridges are worth a fortune these days. I have a super rare COMX-35 Computer - very rare and worth a lot of money. It is like anything - it is collectible after a few years. An original IBM X86 would be woth a small fortune, and I'm sure some people would take the trip down memory lane and play the original Sim City..
so if I understand correctly pinball hobbyists are not for the pinball play but to relive the past. My bad as I play because I enjoy the concept of pinball. I won't buy an XT  to watch a stationary human like figure slide across the screen and call it the olympic games or kings quest 1 where I can't make out what that blob is on the screen that will help me solve the puzzle and progress. Res evil on xbox one is more my style now. I get where you're coming from btw but think Stern's unwillingness to push the envelope is no helping to progress this industry. I like to be wowed and blown away by new things. Do you remember the "juggler" on the first ega systems. What a wank but it got me excited and watching. That's the actual thrill I'm yearning for to really spark a major buzz in this hobby. My opinion not everyone's.

For all the guys who take offence to people's posts that disagree with theirs. I consider Nino a mate, and respect his thoughts, but can disagree with him sometimes. I don't think he'll put me on ignore nor need to get nasty.  ^^^
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 11:32:42 PM by pinball god »
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Offline pinsanity

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #140 on: February 14, 2016, 12:07:20 AM »
Case in point - anyone that thinks a machine costs US$6000 to make is kidding themselves. EVERYONE along the food chain is making money - the investors, the shareholders etc etc.. Stern are making a LOT of money making pinballs - first rule of business - if you are not making money then you won't survive very long !

Whats the difference between a Pro and an LE - a backglass, a plaque, a drop target here, and extra spinner there and a bash toy. HARDLY - $4000 worth. Then there's the extras - toppers, armor - Stern make a killing.

If Stern were realistic with their prices, and given how much I enjoy TWD LE and KISS LE (code permitting) - I would buy more games. If Stern dropped this 3 tier rubbish and made the LE the STANDARD - in line with everyone else before them, and sold them into the market for realistic prices (JB Hi Fi) they would be far far more successful, sell more games into homes and not create a price point where people are prepared to pay as much for a fully restored "A" or "B" title.

Given the numbers (profits) involved, it also makes the idea of "negotiating" $50 off a shaker motor or half price shipping up the East coast of Australia really quite absurd in context.

Offline pinnies4me

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #141 on: February 14, 2016, 08:45:25 AM »
I'll just say this and I'm arguing Sterns price hikes, not currency rates which have nothing to do with increasing the usd price. Please answer this.

Why are old b/w pinballs sales going crazy and prices at stupid prices? I think......bnib prices too high otherwise you gotta agree new is trouble free.....yes? And secondly, people may prefer playing complete games re coding issue. There is also a possible third reason and I cannot backup with data or research but maybe creativity and fun factor. For me this is not so as I do like some Stern games but I'm hearing a lot of disappointment in taking stern not taking risks in introducing new innovations and tricks. All my car/pc/entertainment equipment purchases are based on improving my life, upgrading to be specific. Dunno if I've met anyone go out of their way to buy an XT computer by throwing away their current machine.....I could be wrong  

I have been wondering about the cause of the price rises in both "classic" DMD and new Stern.

It would make sense that the prices rises of NIB games have gone up so much that the classic games have followed.

But as I recall it, the rise in the prices of classic games has been leading the way, with Stern following the lead and increasing their prices. I might have that wrong, be interested if anyone who has been actually following pricing over the last few years has some information.


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Offline swinks

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #142 on: February 14, 2016, 09:04:17 AM »
from what I believe the prices started going up when JJP came on the scene so Stern started to raise there prices a few hundred almost each new game release, then second hand sterns started to go up to stay $1-2k under a NIB and then overseas container pins followed suit but there is some crazy priced container pin prices now for 20-25 year old games. I could be wrong but pretty sure the AUD has remained similar to the Euro so the price shouldn't have gone up so much for the overseas purchase but more so the Aussie sellers raising prices to stay within reach of second hand sterns.
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Offline pinnies4me

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #143 on: February 14, 2016, 09:22:50 AM »
from what I believe the prices started going up when JJP came on the scene so Stern started to raise there prices a few hundred almost each new game release, then second hand sterns started to go up to stay $1-2k under a NIB and then overseas container pins followed suit but there is some crazy priced container pin prices now for 20-25 year old games. I could be wrong but pretty sure the AUD has remained similar to the Euro so the price shouldn't have gone up so much for the overseas purchase but more so the Aussie sellers raising prices to stay within reach of second hand sterns.

So you think Stern started the price rises that then flowed through to the classic DMD's? Interesting. Strangeways will probably have a handle on this given he was bringing classic DMDs in through this period. Maybe for another thread as getting off topic, sorry Swinks!
“If you wanna escape, go up to a pinball machine. There’s a magic button on the front that takes you to a world under the glass and makes the the rest of the universe disappear.”

Offline swinks

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #144 on: February 14, 2016, 09:34:04 AM »
it is a little off topic but that is ok, interesting stuff but hence my other thread for Stern price watching has had me curious and watching for a while and then was a definite Stern change when JJP advertised WOZ pricing and then Stern raised prices and around that time classic DMD's B titles were $2750 to $3250 and now just getting cray.

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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #145 on: February 14, 2016, 10:57:23 AM »
I'll just say this and I'm arguing Sterns price hikes, not currency rates which have nothing to do with increasing the usd price. Please answer this.

Why are old b/w pinballs sales going crazy and prices at stupid prices? I think......bnib prices too high otherwise you gotta agree new is trouble free.....yes? And secondly, people may prefer playing complete games re coding issue. There is also a possible third reason and I cannot backup with data or research but maybe creativity and fun factor. For me this is not so as I do like some Stern games but I'm hearing a lot of disappointment in taking stern not taking risks in introducing new innovations and tricks. All my car/pc/entertainment equipment purchases are based on improving my life, upgrading to be specific. Dunno if I've met anyone go out of their way to buy an XT computer by throwing away their current machine.....I could be wrong  

First of all - where is the evidence that they are going for stupid prices ? Ebay ? Ebay is bait for an unsuspecting buyer that learns that after their first pinball purchase - they have been ripped off !

From my point of view, and within my business, I've signed up B/W titles as High End Restorations that are surpassing Stern's Pro and Premium prices. Pinheads are buying games that they played when they were young. They identify with a period of their life, and they have saved up enough to buy an example of that machine. In 10 years time, a present day collector will be asking me to do the same with an AC/DC etc.

The reason Stern don't innovate as in decades past, is because people are happy to pay the current prices. Having said that, and back on topic - the "under the playfield ramp" is considered an innovation - and it took Trudeau to come up with it !

The XT Computer analogy - I sold my Commodore 64 original games on disk and cartridge 20 years ago. Those cartridges are worth a fortune these days. I have a super rare COMX-35 Computer - very rare and worth a lot of money. It is like anything - it is collectible after a few years. An original IBM X86 would be woth a small fortune, and I'm sure some people would take the trip down memory lane and play the original Sim City..
so if I understand correctly pinball hobbyists are not for the pinball play but to relive the past. My bad as I play because I enjoy the concept of pinball. I won't buy an XT  to watch a stationary human like figure slide across the screen and call it the olympic games or kings quest 1 where I can't make out what that blob is on the screen that will help me solve the puzzle and progress. Res evil on xbox one is more my style now. I get where you're coming from btw but think Stern's unwillingness to push the envelope is no helping to progress this industry. I like to be wowed and blown away by new things. Do you remember the "juggler" on the first ega systems. What a wank but it got me excited and watching. That's the actual thrill I'm yearning for to really spark a major buzz in this hobby. My opinion not everyone's.

For all the guys who take offence to people's posts that disagree with theirs. I consider Nino a mate, and respect his thoughts, but can disagree with him sometimes. I don't think he'll put me on ignore nor need to get nasty.  ^^^

Almost every person that buys a machine from APR, buys that machine predominantly, as it is a game they used to play in the arcades and fish and chip shops. KISS fans (40's) bought Stern KISS. A Justin Beaver pinball would simply never sell more than a handful. People who buy late model Sterns are pinheads that already had games from previous time periods. I've never come across a pinball collector, that started collecting NIB Sterns. They are started from somewhere else.
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #146 on: February 14, 2016, 11:08:23 AM »
from what I believe the prices started going up when JJP came on the scene so Stern started to raise there prices a few hundred almost each new game release, then second hand sterns started to go up to stay $1-2k under a NIB and then overseas container pins followed suit but there is some crazy priced container pin prices now for 20-25 year old games. I could be wrong but pretty sure the AUD has remained similar to the Euro so the price shouldn't have gone up so much for the overseas purchase but more so the Aussie sellers raising prices to stay within reach of second hand sterns.

So you think Stern started the price rises that then flowed through to the classic DMD's? Interesting. Strangeways will probably have a handle on this given he was bringing classic DMDs in through this period. Maybe for another thread as getting off topic, sorry Swinks!

This thread is going a bit off topic, but the quick answer is that although both NIB and Container pins have increased in prices, the price increase of container pins is 100% due to greedy dealers listing $9500 "Fully done up" Twilight Zones that have been very poorly shopped. Once one dealer sees a TZ at $9500, they automatically adjust the price to that figure and now ALL dealers "think" TZ is a pinball they sell for $9500 all day long. Which is not true of course, but once the overseas suppliers check Aussie eBay - they see the games they are supplying are advertised at massive profits, so overnight, they increased their supplier price. Which in turn drives up the selling cost which introduces cost cutting in Australia.

The bubble for NIB Sterns will burst a lot sooner than the 25 year old pinball's bubble will..

But in 25 years time, collectors will be asking for Stern titles to be restored as they are the games they identify with as well.
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Offline Cursed

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #147 on: February 14, 2016, 11:28:33 AM »
I agree with Nino on the price side of things.

I was an arcade man when I was young I never actually played a pinball machine until roughly 3 and a bit years ago. My time was the early 90's so Tekken 1, 2 and 3, Soul Edge/Calibur, Daytona, Manx TT, Virtua Fighter 2 and so on are my memory games.

I started to collect some of these games and thought it would be good to have a pinball machine for my game room (big mistake  :lol) so I can say that price was a big factor in my purchases as I had no memory to draw from.

I played as many machines as I could and ended up buying a Shadow as I loved the gameplay and the mechanical toys (battlefield, ball lock and diverters) and mostly the price was right. I did not know or care (still don't) if I had a Bally, Stern, Data East or any other brand it was price and fun/theme that made my purchasing decisions.

If Stern has room to cut prices and I am sure they do sales would increase. $12500 for a LE now is way out of my price range, hell I got Batman Dark Knight, Twilight Zone and Shadow for less than that! I know it is a brand new machine but I can honestly say the three machines I mentioned have ran very well for the time I have had them.
 
I personally am very happy that I got all my machines when I did and I only have room for one more. Prices for most pins now are very expensive.

So Ghostbusters........looks like it will be a good pin.  *)*

Offline swinks

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Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #148 on: February 14, 2016, 12:26:27 PM »
sort back on to GB

would it be good if stern could release GB with a lcd, I reckon this then would be their best seller. Just look at what Dutch Pinball is doing with TBL
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Offline delarge

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Re: Re: Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it
« Reply #149 on: February 14, 2016, 06:10:51 PM »
sort back on to GB

would it be good if stern could release GB with a lcd, I reckon this then would be their best seller. Just look at what Dutch Pinball is doing with TBL
Wow, Jady. Get out of my head. I watched that video and thought the same thing. First thought when watching the video: it will be a crying shame if Stern waste this license on red dots. So many great clips from the Ghostbusters movie (hey, even both of them) to waste on boring red dots. Playing Game of Thrones recently you can tell that Stern are leading up to colour with all the video clips in the game, they just haven't made that next step.

I don't care what anyone says, new pinball displays need colour. You don't play the display, sure, but it makes it a hell of a lot more appealing.

I'd definitely buy a Lebowski if there was an Australian dealer. One of my favourite movies and that game just looks amazing. I don't feel comfortable with sending my money off to a company overseas and having to deal with getting a machine via a container. I just want to ring a distributor, pay my money and have TNT drop it off, drama free. Putting titles like Lebowski and Rob Zombie out of my head at the moment.