Author Topic: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch  (Read 2496 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline swinks

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Newcastle, NSW
Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« on: March 22, 2015, 11:20:52 AM »
The recent press release of Stern's game - Whoa Nellie has caused a stir in the pinball community due to the price hike and it got me wondering if we can all post the different game press releases in this thread for all the new and past machines so we have one location to compare price changes to take the guess work out of some of the opinions.

Please include press releases for Pro's, Premium's and LE's,

Month / Year / Game Name / Category / Price (US MSRP)

Note: you would think that the MSRP would not change as almost all the parts are made in the US so these prices should remain consistent at least for a year.

So to start it off:

March / 2015 / Whoa Nellie / Boutique / $6499

January / 2015 / WWE / Pro / $5495
January / 2015 / WWE / LE / $

December / 2014 / The Walking Dead / Premium / $7595
September / 2014 / The Walking Dead / Pro / $5995
September / 2014 / The Walking Dead / LE / $8595

June / 2014 / Iron Man Vault / Pro / $5495

March / 2014 / Mustang / Pro / $5395
March / 2014 / Mustang / Premium / $7495
March / 2014 / Mustang / LE / $8495

December / 2013 / AC/DC Luci Premium / $7495

September / 2013 / Star Trek / Pro / $5385
September / 2013 / Star Trek / Premium / $7495
September / 2013 / Star Trek / LE / $8795

April / 2013 / Metallica / Pro / $4995
April / 2013 / Metallica / Premium / $6995
April / 2013 / Metallica / LE / $7595

November / 2012 / Avengers / Pro / $5699
November / 2012 / Avengers / LE (2 models) / $8099

June / 2012 / X-Men / Pro / $5699
June / 2012 / X-Men / LE (2 models) / $7099

March / 2012 / AC/DC / Pro / $5699
March / 2012 / AC/DC / Premium / $7699
March / 2012 / AC/DC / LE (2 models) / $8499

September / 2011 / Transformer / Pro / $4795
September / 2011 / Transformer / LE (3 models ?) / $6295 ? (need to confirm)

Stern did not advertise MSRP for the below but if anyone knows them please share

May / 2011 / Tron / Pro / $
May / 2011 / Tron / LE / $

January / 2011 / Rolling Stones / Pro / $
January / 2011 / Rolling Stones / LE / $

August / 2011 / Avatar / Pro / $
August / 2011 / Avatar / LE / $

April / 2010 / IronMan / Pro / $

January / 2010 / Big Buck Hunter / Pro / $
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 11:42:41 AM by swinks »

Offline swinks

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Newcastle, NSW
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2015, 11:28:53 AM »
Interestingly AMD's prices as of today (22-3-15) is

WWE / Pro / $7850
WWE / LE / $11250

TWD / Pro / $7850
TWD / Premium / $9850
TWD / LE / $11250

Mustang / Pro / $7850
Mustang / Premium / $9850
Mustang / LE / $11250

Star Trek / Pro / $7850
Star Trek / Premium / $9850
Star Trek / LE / SOLD OUT

Metallica / Pro / $7850
Metallica / Premium / SOLD OUT
Metallica / LE / SOLD OUT


I understand that the dollar goes up and down and changes the end customer price for us but why is it that all these games have different MSRP prices which you would think that AMD would pay a set agreed wholesale price based on the MSRP for each pin, but they have bumped the price for all games to suit the latest release games pricing. Look at the difference between a Metallica Pro and a WWE Pro = a potential $500 bonus

« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 11:41:36 AM by swinks »

Online GORGAR 1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • BROOKFIELD-MELBOURNE
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2015, 12:14:30 PM »
Just wondering what the point of this is? If you Want to buy a stern give Bruce a call he'll look after you  ^^^
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 12:23:37 PM by GORGAR 1 »

Offline pinsanity

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 12:23:32 PM »
The Pin  $3000.   &&

Offline swinks

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Newcastle, NSW
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2015, 12:58:28 PM »
instead of discussing the prices of things going up in the Whoa Nellie Release thread I though it would be interesting to state the current and past pricing trend of pins. There was comments in that thread that AMD just charge what they are charged which is speculation just as this is, but I thought this thread is a better place for the discussion. In addition have some clear figures allowing us to look at a more accurate price estimate or a formula of such.

eg - WWE MSRP is $5495 and this equates to $7065 AUD at todays rate and the retail price here is $7850 = about a 11% increase.

of course this is speculation as we do not know what AMD pays but if the US dealers can drop a pin price $500 - $1000 of a MSRP and still make some money, I think AMD are doing ok.

so keeping with that same formula of sorts WNBJM will be $6499 USD = $8360 AUD today x 1.11 = $9280 as an estimate.


If we don't talk prices from time to time and just accept what is given to us we are the ones that loose out, as well as the 2nd hand market as when NIB prices go up so do all the second hand market pins.


As for buying a pin from AMD, when I can afford it, and is a pin I love I will make a fair dinkum enquiry, but since I have never bought a NIB he isn't going to look after me like he can look after you with multiple purchases which I accept..

Also if AMD can have 2 dealers that sell roughly at the same price as AMD and they still earn money, AMD are effectively making more money if you buy direct off them and they can afford to give a discount to the repeat customers.


This is just mere speculation to get people thinking about high high they are willing to go.

Online GORGAR 1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • BROOKFIELD-MELBOURNE
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2015, 01:03:58 PM »
So on the WWE your saying AMD make about $800? Out of that they have to bring the container in and look after warranty yeah?  Not alot really.

Offline Retropin

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2015, 01:45:27 PM »
So on the WWE your saying AMD make about $800? Out of that they have to bring the container in and look after warranty yeah?  Not alot really.

No.. that is the recommended sale price... NOT the wholesale price that the game is bought at.
It generally goes like this... Stern make a machine and sell at a wholesale price to distributors. They then RECOMMEND that the distributors sell at RRP which is normally a 30% on average mark up. Its then up to the distributors whether they want to sell above or below that RRP.
Depending on the agents business model, they either sell in numbers at a lower price or small at a higher price.
The $800 quoted is above and beyond the % mark up figure.. and as you quite rightly point out, they have shipping costs to consider.
But $800 per machine???

In general terms, it would appear that pinball machines could be sold in Australia cheaper than they currently are and a healthy profit maintained.
What we need is the $$ figure that a Stern distributor can buy at... find that out and you could conclusively state whether the cow is being milked or not.
Problem is that we have had previous threads where Australian customers have bought SINGLE machines from USA distributors and shipped them over individually and STILL come under the AMD sell price.. and that would include the distributor making his profit and shipping the most expensive way... not looking good for the cow!

Offline swinks

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Newcastle, NSW
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2015, 01:52:12 PM »
with all respect why would they bother being in business for just a few hundred a machine.


if stern set a MSRP of what ever value say $6500 and in the US alone a Dealer can drop the price $500 to $1000 (on a $5500 machine) with some including freight = so call it $5500 USD and still make money = meaning US distributors are possibly buying it for around $4000-$5000 hoping to sell a batch of pins fast.

Therefore totally speculation but feasible is the Distributers purchase price is approximately mid way $4500 USD  - so possibly better than $4500 USD for the long term valued distributor like AMD.

So midway at $4500 USD = $5800 AUD and then on-sold to Aus customers for for $7850 = approximately $2050 then less overseas freight, tax and duties = $1500 AUD per machine profit line per machine and possibly more

sell 100 pro's a year and thats just $200k, not counting premiums, le's and all the other machines and services that AMD sell.

There was a discussion a few years ago that AMD still raised the price in line with the USD price rise even though the AUD was better than the USD, a few hundred here and there is ok as it makes up for the bad times where they had to wear some of the loss.

This thread has come about talking about the price hike of the whoa nellie and some stating AMD do not allow a little extra or doing it tough.

My point is there comes a point of the bubble bursting and I believe that is close and just on pinside that is evident with the Whoa Nellie price is just a bit too high for a modern SS (not a dmd) and being rejected by many - and many of those were interested.

Offline pinsanity

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2015, 01:55:50 PM »
^This to both swinks and retropin.  *%*

Just to muddy the price structure waters even more, Stern distros in the US are also subject to what is called MAP (minimum advertised pricing). A nice way of circumventing price fixing legislation.

This is why so many of the medium sized distros sell by way of forums with a caveat of "email me for price". They can do a far better deal without Stern HQ getting wind of it and without a nearby competitor immediately knocking another couple hundred off their advertised price in order to get the sale.

The discount I got on my imported BIBLE was enough to cover shipping costs from the US and then some and still overall came in under AMD retail pricing ex Sydney.

Who said competition was a bad thing? The ones with the market monopoly.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 01:59:50 PM by pinsanity »

Online GORGAR 1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • BROOKFIELD-MELBOURNE
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2015, 02:16:28 PM »
Ok thanks for clearing that up :)

Offline pinoffski

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ****
  • Forum Posts:
  • Wollongong NSW
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2015, 06:15:23 PM »
Most big end company's have different price structures for countries.

unless you are in a company that has to trade on a world market due to world resource prices the prices that changes daily.

But for pinball you would have a set contract and price to produce X off at a price ..

maybe i am wrong but i think we are getting screwed in AU
   

Offline Caveoftreasures

  • Trade Count: (+16)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2015, 10:52:10 PM »
The whole pricing structure issue is less of a mystery for those who have run and owned their own businesses most of their life.
Firstly there is one simple rule in business that has to be understood to understand profit margins and what percentage is or isn't acceptable to a business owner. This margin or percentage is dependant on what you have spent in the first place and it doesn't decrease normally the more money you make.

Let me give you an example. (The following math is just approx and very rough to make it easy and is rounded off give or take a few hundred but you get the rough idea for realistic profit margins I have seen and used all my life).

If as a business owner I buy something for $1,000 (one thousand dollars) you would want to sell it at say $1250 and make a $250 profit or 25 percent.

Let's say I buy something and my cost is $6,000 (six thousand dollars) I am going to realistically sell it again with a 25 percent profit, so I am going to sell the item at $8,000 (eight thousand dollars).

Some people who have never run a business might ask or say, why not just sell it at a ten percent profit instead of a twenty five percent profit and sell more ? It doesn't work like this.
The more you pay out, the more money you risk as a business owner, the more money you WANT back as a profit margin. It gets down to effort versus return.

No one in the electronic security industry makes less than 25 percent. It's 25 percent minimum.
If you spend ten grand, you want your ten grand back plus 2500 on top.
If you spend 20 grand you want your money back plus five grand on top and so on.

There are industry margins for recommended retail for a reason. Profit makes industries keep the turn over going.
If the profit margins are too low, you don't get people buying the products for retail resale. Without retail profits, wholesalers don't exist. Big companies like Stern or jetski companies or luxury retailers want their wholesalers to make a healthy profit because if you can't make a healthy profit selling their product, you reshape your business and sell a different product.
No company wants you as a wholesale buyer to stop buying and then stop retailing their product.
This is why RRPricing is set at a usual 25 to 35 percent.
Drop the price down from Max retail with a 35 percent margin, make a 25 percent margin and the customer gets the discount they want, you still make a healthy profit and the company you buy your stock from keeps building the products.

If AMD isn't making a minimum of 20 to 25 percent profit, they would be insane to even bother importing the product.
If I buy a product for close to six grand landed with all my costs, I would want and require a 2 grand profit.

If anyone on this forum thinks buying a shipping container of say 40 machines which is going to cost you around $240,000, if you didn't get all your money back and make a 20 percent plus profit, you would be financially retarded.
Reward for risk and expenditure is the name of the game.

If you can't make the 20 plus percent on the pinball machine, you are going to stop importing pinballs and start buying and selling something else.
If AMD can't make a decent and worthwhile return on their outlay, then brand new in box pinballs into Australia will become extinct.
AMD deserve every cent profit they make. I couldn't care less if they make a grand, fifteen hundred or twenty five hundred off a pinball. That is their business.

All I care about is that the end price of the pinball machine still represents value for money to me.
The Pro is roughly $7800. Negotiating delivery and a shaker motor etc, still gives ME a price I am comfortable with.
This is a very personal choice.

I know some people who would not buy a BNIB machine even if it were only 4 grand.
Some people think buying a over rated late 1990,s Bally Williams for ten plus grand is value for money.
Some people think anything more than 2 grand for any pinball is a rip off. It's all personal.

I think the Australian dollar is 90 percent of the blame reallistically for BNIB pricing complaints.
We had the Aussie dollar too good for too long, then it sank quickly like the Titanic.

I have always loved Sterns Pro model. I have always thought and still do think they are excellent value for money.
I say this because I have played hundreds of DMD titles and have over 50 DMD machines in my collection to compare to.

The price of everything today is expensive.
Us Aussies are used to inexpensive white goods and new Televisions at great prices because of our proximity to Asia.
But us Aussies don't like paying too much for our other luxury items regardless of our incomes.
That's our unique Aussie way I guess.

The great thing about a BNIB pinball machine is that in a home environment it will last forever, unlike a brand new car we also pay a lot of money for but is worth nothing after 5 years.

The current prices of pinballs aren't the cheapest they have ever been I will grant that, but the Aussie dollar is the issue, not AMD over charging in my opinion.

Things could be worse, we could have no Stern importer.
I am grateful we do have AMD.
Making money in today's world is not easy.

AMD need to make a reasonable profit otherwise it ain't worth importing the machines.
Profit should not be a dirty word.
To a business owner, going broke is a much dirtier set of words.
Trading dollars for dollars and making fark all is just as bad.
You have to make a decent percentage to pay all the running costs.
Otherwise, why get out of bed ?

« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 11:12:34 PM by Caveoftreasures »
Behind every garage door could be a pinball collectors
"Cave of Treasures" 55 in my collection

Into  Stern -JJP - Cars , Road Bikes- Jet Skis - Star Trek n Sci-Fi & Electronics    
Beware of Stalkers & Walkers when playing The Walking Dead

My 7yr old son Hunter is my best mate in the world !

Offline swinks

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Newcastle, NSW
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2015, 12:49:05 PM »
AMD just finalised the price of Whoa Nellie  -----   Whoa.....
$9250 incl. gst ex our Alexandria,Sydney office,arriving here end May.

can't see too many being sold
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 01:21:58 PM by swinks »

Offline pinsanity

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2015, 12:54:07 PM »
MOO!  %.%

Offline RottyGuy

  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • QLD
Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2015, 03:58:27 PM »
AMD just finalised the price of Whoa Nellie  -----   Whoa.....
$9250 incl. gst ex our Alexandria,Sydney office,arriving here end May.

can't see too many being sold

I'll take a Fish Tales, Shadow and Jurassic Park instead.