Author Topic: EOS switch on Data East + new flipper issue  (Read 362 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MartyJ

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
EOS switch on Data East + new flipper issue
« on: November 08, 2008, 01:41:18 PM »
Hi Guys,

I have read over Marvin's site and I cant find an answer, nor can I get a copy of the schematics to check for myself....

When I put the flipper kits in, the EOS switches were wired in exactly the same, both wires to the one lug and no diode.  Can anyone please confirm how this should be as it definately does not seem right to me?

Thanks
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 12:52:31 PM by MartyJ »

Offline Strangeways

  • Pinball Restoration is my passion
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • *****
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
  • ABN 68 283 634 461
    • Australian Pinball Restorations
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2008, 05:44:32 PM »
Hi Guys,

I have read over Marvin's site and I cant find an answer, nor can I get a copy of the schematics to check for myself....

When I put the flipper kits in, the EOS switches were wired in exactly the same, both wires to the one lug and no diode.  Can anyone please confirm how this should be as it definately does not seem right to me?

Thanks

It should be the same as my JP - Switches are normally closed, then open once the EOS has occurred. Operators used to hotwire EOS on some DEs..

Mick will chime in as he has a copy of the schematic  #@#

Aussie Pinball - Proud to be Australia's Premier Pinball Forum

APR - Australian CPR Distributor

http://www.australianpinballrestorations.com.au/

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/

We carry the largest range of NEW Ramps in Australia

Offline Pinball Fixers

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Montrose, VIC
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2008, 08:34:00 PM »
The "hotwired" EOS switches are usually on LAH and JP... This was done so that the "Ripper" would not cause the flipper bat to go down when the ball hit it.

Anyway, Nino's right, they should be closed, and then open when the flipper bat is almost in the upright position. There is no diode needed on the EOS switch, and it is best to make sure they are wired correctly... if not, you run the risk of burning out the coils, and possibly the flipper board.

Offline MartyJ

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2008, 10:32:34 PM »
Thanks guys, I'm just going over everything as I think perhaps the OP had done some "R.A.G" repairs....

I found a pic on marvin's with the wiring and I've matched it...Now if I manually open the EOS switch the flipper wont operate (ie pressing the button) so I hope this is right.  I wont play it until I get confirmation....

The ripper certainly kicks the ball out good!

Good news about the diode...I'm just paranoid about them now....I expect diodes on everything and I'm checking them all!

Offline Pinball Fixers

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Montrose, VIC
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2008, 10:38:32 PM »
If the EOS is open, then the flipper will barely operate... if at all.

I'd say you are OK to play.

Offline Nug

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ****
  • Forum Posts:
  • melbourne
  • NPC non-factory CEO
    • Coconut Island
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 05:50:18 PM »
If the EOS is open, then the flipper will barely operate... if at all.

I'd say you are OK to play.

i sorry, but this is massively incorrect.

the games JP going forward had the 'facilty' to reinitiate the hi power 'timed' pulse if the flipper bat was overwhelmed...the reason is correct, raptor shot would overwhelm the then current DE solid state hold ability...the fix was to sense reverse travel (bat giving in) with an EOS and act as if cabinet switch was repressed ...hi power fire--> hold. the system is defeated by shorting, but better performance is achieved as is...i dont know why ops would disable ?

it has nothing to do with flipper power. the timed pulse is always the power stroke so to speak.

on my rocky a ripping orbit will knock the bat down and subsequent drain     @.@  im looking to modify soon !
oh my mistake.. you are wrong !

Offline Nug

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ****
  • Forum Posts:
  • melbourne
  • NPC non-factory CEO
    • Coconut Island
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 05:58:38 PM »
i now see the flaw... if flipper travel was impeded then ultimately the fuse would blow or flipper board death from serious hi power pulsage !
ops would simply then defeat.
oh my mistake.. you are wrong !

Offline Pinball Fixers

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Montrose, VIC
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2008, 06:42:14 PM »
If the EOS is open, then the flipper will barely operate... if at all.

I'd say you are OK to play.

i sorry, but this is massively incorrect.

the games JP going forward had the 'facilty' to reinitiate the hi power 'timed' pulse if the flipper bat was overwhelmed...the reason is correct, raptor shot would overwhelm the then current DE solid state hold ability...the fix was to sense reverse travel (bat giving in) with an EOS and act as if cabinet switch was repressed ...hi power fire--> hold. the system is defeated by shorting, but better performance is achieved as is...i dont know why ops would disable ?

it has nothing to do with flipper power. the timed pulse is always the power stroke so to speak.

on my rocky a ripping orbit will knock the bat down and subsequent drain     @.@  im looking to modify soon !


Yeah Nug, you are correct... I was thinking about the Williams system when I posted that... whoops! @.@

Hope I didn't point you in the wrong direction MartyJ  #$#

Maybe I should go back and re-read the "Theory of Operation" for the flipper board in a DE manual...

Offline MartyJ

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 07:50:31 PM »
If the EOS is open, then the flipper will barely operate... if at all.

I'd say you are OK to play.

i sorry, but this is massively incorrect.

the games JP going forward had the 'facilty' to reinitiate the hi power 'timed' pulse if the flipper bat was overwhelmed...the reason is correct, raptor shot would overwhelm the then current DE solid state hold ability...the fix was to sense reverse travel (bat giving in) with an EOS and act as if cabinet switch was repressed ...hi power fire--> hold. the system is defeated by shorting, but better performance is achieved as is...i dont know why ops would disable ?

it has nothing to do with flipper power. the timed pulse is always the power stroke so to speak.

on my rocky a ripping orbit will knock the bat down and subsequent drain     @.@  im looking to modify soon !


Yeah Nug, you are correct... I was thinking about the Williams system when I posted that... whoops! @.@

Hope I didn't point you in the wrong direction MartyJ  #$#

Maybe I should go back and re-read the "Theory of Operation" for the flipper board in a DE manual...

Hehe, no probs I'm still ironing out a few minor issues here and there....

If someone with a schematic would be able to let me know which colour should go to the larger lug / smaller lug (or go back to what it was) that would be great!

Offline Pinball Fixers

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Montrose, VIC
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2008, 08:02:09 PM »
Are you talking about the lugs on the EOS switches?

If so, it doesn't matter which way around the wires are on the switches... they are just contact switches with no diodes attached to them, so wither way around will work.

Offline MartyJ

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
Re: EOS switch on Data East
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2008, 08:06:02 PM »
Are you talking about the lugs on the EOS switches?

If so, it doesn't matter which way around the wires are on the switches... they are just contact switches with no diodes attached to them, so wither way around will work.


Yes, just the lugs on the EOS switches.  Previously both wires were going to one lug.  I could not find any documentation to let me know how they were supposed to be wired.  I found a pic on Marvin's site for a D.E and I followed the colours as they had.....BUT if I manually open the EOS switch , flipper will not operate...If this is not suppose to happen then I may have an issue...

Offline MartyJ

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
Re: EOS switch on Data East + new flipper issues
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2008, 12:52:08 PM »
Hi Guys,

I've seemed to have developed a intermittent issue with my flippers.  Whilst playing, the l/h/s flipper just stopped working.  The game reset (on 3rd ball) and back to business.  A few games later, the r/h/s flipper stopped working.  I opened the coin door and the red LED was still flashing when I pressed the button.  Both EOS switches were closed.  The 3rd time it happened I manually opened the EOS switch and let it close and the flipper started working again.. I have gone over the flipper board and cannot find any dry joints and both TIP30c's are getting readings within Marvin's range.

I checked the Q80 on the CPU board, all seems fine.  When going into diagnostics the RY1 relay is opening and closing when it should.  If it was an issue with the relay I would have thought it would effect both not just one flipper.

All flipper componets are new, so I dont suspect any of those either.

Any ideas would be appreciated!

**Forgot to add, the fuse holders look to be quite strong (didn't break off like the other ones)...I may swap these and the TIP30c's as well just for fun and games.  It is the original flipper board too, without the modifications (as per service bulletin).
THe other option is maybe to look into the 520-5076-00 updated board from PinLED.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 03:05:31 PM by MartyJ »

Offline MartyJ

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
Re: EOS switch on Data East + new flipper issue
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 07:05:29 PM »
...Update:

I replaced both TIP36c's on the flipper board last night.  The fuse holders are spot on, so I left those.  Fuses were tested with DMM to be safe..

Tested last night no probs / repeats of failures.  The lovely played for about four hours this afternoon and no probs noted.....

So I will see how it goes for another week...If all good then I can look at getting my new DMD to finish...

Offline Strangeways

  • Pinball Restoration is my passion
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • *****
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
  • ABN 68 283 634 461
    • Australian Pinball Restorations
Re: EOS switch on Data East + new flipper issue
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 08:39:48 PM »

Good News... Usually Dry Joints and faulty fuse clips cause these issues, but in this case - You worked it out by changing the transistors.. Well Done !
Aussie Pinball - Proud to be Australia's Premier Pinball Forum

APR - Australian CPR Distributor

http://www.australianpinballrestorations.com.au/

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/

We carry the largest range of NEW Ramps in Australia