Author Topic: White Water project  (Read 9339 times)

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Offline casperthefriendly

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2013, 11:10:45 PM »
I could be wrong but Mr pinball in Oz may have had them if not made them. He has a printer for this and other decals so maybe try him next time as postage is probably a lot cheaper????

Mmm, I see he Mr Pinball is still advertising the Medieval Madness rerun as "In Production" http://thepinballfactory.com/

I'd be getting my decals from the states FWIW.

Offline andtan

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2014, 02:28:10 PM »
Well it's been a long while between updates, so I thought I'd better do one.

Since my last post, I have under-coated the cabinet and back box, and then started what I thought would be a quick process of getting some blue paint matched.

Unfortunately the blue is one of the most difficult colours to get matched, and every place I went to I got the “Yeah, we can match that”, which soon ended with a “Sorry, we can’t do it”.

My initial hope was that I could get a paint that I could spray myself, but I soon found that my only option was going to be an automotive 2-pac style paint – which unfortunately I can’t spray. With that in mind I sourced a local sprayer to do the blue for me, which he reckoned he could do in mid-January, which was going to be great as I had 3 weeks off from Jan 13. But as luck would have it, the mid-January booking has had to be delayed until the 2nd week of February as the spray-painter has a few more urgent jobs to do.

With that unavoidable setback, I then decided to tackle to playfield clear coat as I had done all the repairs. I found a thread on playfield clear coating (on the other Aussie site) in which a 1-pac clear coat called ‘KBS Diamond Finish Clear Coat’ was used. There is an extensive thread on this by a guy called ‘Darksoul’ – who is also an infrequent AP member.

The thing that appealed to me about using the KBS clear was that I could put it down with a brush or a roller and still achieve great results. KBS clear can be sprayed, but it has the same issues that 2-pac does.

So today I took the plunge and laid down the first coat – using a roller. I reckon I re-read all the info I could find before I started, and found a heap of excuses to not go ahead. I started having second thoughts and got that uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach as I've never done this before. The sort of feeling you got as a kid when you climbed the 10-m diving tower at the pool and first looked down. I suppose my biggest fear is – “What if I stuff it up, what then???”

After a bit more stalling, I finally opened the KBS tin to prepare the mix. When I opened the can, it was sort of like opening a bottle of soft drink, as thousands of tiny bubble started appearing it and rising to the surface. Here’s hoping that’s a good sign.

Using a large horse syringe, I then put 150-ml of the clear in a glass jar, and using a smaller syringe added 45-ml of KBS #1 thinners. My reason for using syringes is that it helps maintain accuracy with the mix, and prevents getting the clear in the tin/lid channel as apparently if the clear gets in the channel you won’t get the lid off again. The horse syringe was about $4.50 from a horse supplies store, and the 10-ml ones about $0.50 from a chemist.

Once mixed the clear is quite runny, probably similar to a really runny honey

To apply the clear I used a 160-mm medium density foam roller that I got from Bunnings and a 180-mm paint tray which I lined with foil. I lined the tray with foiled as I wasn’t sure if the clear would react with the plastic tray.

I then applied what I believe to be a thin coat (as recommended) and left it to cure – which apparently should take a couple of hours. The clear is supposed to be ‘self-levelling’ and any bubbles that form should burst before it cures, unless the clear is applied too thick or isn't thinned enough.

Having looked at the playfield just then after 50 minutes of curing (at 29 degrees and 29% humidity) it appears to be relatively flat, but there are heaps of ‘divots’. The thread that I read states that these divots will be ‘filled with the second thicker coat’. Fingers crossed on that one.

Later I’ll give it a light sand (800 grit) and then look at putting on a second coast this afternoon.

Andy

Offline ktm450

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2014, 02:37:06 PM »
Funny, reminds me of the many hours I spent trying to colour match the light blue colour for my touch ups  :D
Look forward to seeing how the clear comes out, I would be a bit scared rolling it on too  *%*

Offline Crashramp

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2014, 03:27:36 PM »
Great stuff Andy, I know what you mean about the blue. I've had all sorts of problems matching the blue on my Kings of Steel too. The red, orange and off white were simple but I think I'll have to take it away to be matched for the blue.
 White waters a great game, I bet your looking forward to having it playable again.

Offline DSB

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2014, 04:00:41 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately the blue is one of the most difficult colours to get matched, and every place I went to I got the “Yeah, we can match that”, which soon ended with a “Sorry, we can’t do it”.
It's amazing how the seemingly simple things turn in to a pain in the neck. Very interested to see how your play field turns out. Good luck with it.

Offline andtan

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2014, 04:49:01 PM »
Well the first coat has cured.

I've given it a light sand which has gotten rid of any dust particles (oh for a clean air room  ::) ) which has made it fairly smooth. Even prior to the sand the clear did have a nice feel to it. The dimples however were still visible and could be felt, so here's hoping the second thicker coat fills them in. The dimples are pretty much like an orange-peel look, but I'm not exactly sure what is causing it. The playfield was lightly sanded and wiped over with Shellite prior to coating, it possibly may be the dust in the air !@#

So far I've mixed a total of 250-ml of clear plus thinners, and with the two coats I've done I've got about 75-100 ml mixed clear left. If the second coat doesn't level out / hide the dimples enough I can always put a third one on. I'm assuming the worst case scenario is that I have to do a bit of sanding to get a better finish. I have 2000, 2500, and 3000 grit wet and dry and plenty of time so I'll see what happens. Even so, I'm happy with the general look of the finish so far, and as per Darksoul's thread, there was a bit of sanding to be done to get a flat surface.

The second coat I put on thicker, which is actually hard to gauge as the clear is difficult to see - suppose that's why is called clear  %.%. I basically loaded up the roller and using its own weight covered the playfield. I cant do anything with it now until 5.30 pm so I just have to wait and see.

Andy

Offline andtan

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2014, 05:28:30 PM »
White waters a great game, I bet your looking forward to having it playable again.

Yes it will be good to finally get it going and have that first game, as that will actually be my first game - I've never actually played WH2O  *.*

Offline Crashramp

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2014, 09:40:34 PM »
White waters a great game, I bet your looking forward to having it playable again.

Yes it will be good to finally get it going and have that first game, as that will actually be my first game - I've never actually played WH2O  *.*

Wow! Well your in for a treat when you get it going. Great shots, great call outs, great ramps and the best jackpot feature in pinball IMO.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8jVYEWotJWk

Offline TUF-427

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2014, 06:05:15 PM »
Nice Project Mate will be a Keeper for Sure..

Divots could be caused by a few things,

one Is the clear simply filling all the holes and cracks between the inserts etc which may take a few coats to fill,

The other Dreaded cause of whats known in the paint industry as "Fisheyes"

This is generally caused by silicone still on the surface as a resuidue from polishes..

When painting automotive paints you add silicone remover drops to the mixed paints..

I personally would also use prepsol over shellite to prep the surface too..

Im not 100% sure on shellite may still have an oily residue ....which will cause fisheyes

Just my .02c

Good Luck! *%*
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 06:10:56 PM by TUF-427 »
Firepower, F14 Tomcat, Terminator2, Twilight Zone, No Fear, TAF, Hyperball, Sttng....

Offline andtan

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2014, 08:42:18 PM »
I personally would also use prepsol over shellite to prep the surface too..

Yeah, I might give the Prepsol a run on my next attempt.

After three coats of clear I still had dimpling issues with the KBS. I tried sanding with 2000 wet n' dry but couldn't get a satisfactory finish, so I sanded the whole playfield back with 800 wet n' dry.  *!@

I spoke with a KBS rep today and told him about the issues I had with the clear not self-levelling very well. The rep thinks that it is probably being caused by the fact that air temperatures are quite high in Canberra at the moment, and suggested that rolling in temps over 20 degrees may not allow the clear enough time to level as it is going off too quick. He said that at any other time of the year there would probably be no issue. Having a look at the threads relating to KBS clear on AA, they were done in March and May so the cooler temps may have helped.

His suggestion was that I thin the clear out to 50% (even though the recommended maximum is 30%) to aid in the levelling - and roll the clear with the biggest roller I can get (good quality short nape roller or foam roller), at as low a temperature as I can get, say early morning / late night where temps are closer to 10 degrees. He believes that this should allow the coat to level before it goes off.

The only other advice he had was if thinning to 50%, he recommended that extra coats be applied to build up the level of solids, but said despite the advice on the can saying to do additional coats within 6-hrs, they can just as easily / effectively be done once a day. I asked if I should sand between coats, and he said 'no', as the clear being self-levelling should self-correct with successive coats.

The end untouched result from being rolled won't be as good as it would had it been sprayed on, but he said once I had a number of coats it could then be sanded to give the desired finish.

So armed with that advice I'm going to give it another go, I just now have to wait for a run of cooler overnight temperatures, and hope the humidity isn't too high.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 08:46:42 PM by andtan »

Offline TUF-427

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2014, 10:25:31 AM »
Yep thinning more will def make it level better,
But will also make it " hotter " so to speak..
If you have touched up any artwork or used any decals it could possibly lift it.
I learnt this the hard way on my F14 resto posted on here!
Other thing to be careful of is re coat times,
If you don't leave enough time between coats you can trap solvent inbetween and cause issues too.
Obviously the rep should know his products so follow his guidelines.
I wouldn't be afraid to block Back Inbetween coats either the flatter u can get it between coats the better the end result will be.
Just a suggestion but do u know any of the local spray paint/panel shops in the area?
Finish will be sooooo much better if final coat is sprayed..
If u take your materials etc you might get it done for a carton of beer possibly... *%*
Firepower, F14 Tomcat, Terminator2, Twilight Zone, No Fear, TAF, Hyperball, Sttng....

Offline andtan

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2014, 12:46:23 PM »
Update.

Well the playfield is finally clear-coated - using KBS Clear. I used a roller, but for any future playfields I will look at spraying it. Whilst it looks and feels nice it isn't 100% perfect when compared to a reproduction WH20 (CarbonRods) playfield. When you run your fingers over the playfield you can feel the undulations, but they are not noticeable when a ball is running over the surface. Perhaps I'm being a bit fussy as it feels way smoother than an original playfield with Mylar.

I've just finished the blue top coat (2 coats) for the cabinet using automotive acrylic lacquer (thinned to 50%) and it looks great. I painted the main cabinet more for the practice and to see how it looked rather than for necessity. As I had a litre of paint it wasn't like I was going to waste it. Looking at the decal compared to the paint, it's not a bad match. I was told that it wasn't going to be possible to match the decal perfectly as the decal uses a sign-writers / printers type paint/ink and the brilliance is to hard to match. All in all I'm pretty happy with how it looks.  ^^^
Now I just have to let the paint cure - which will probably end up meaning I won't touch it till next weekend, and then I will tackle the decals.

In the meantime I will continue on with re-populating the playfield and adding to my growing list of odds and ends that I still need to buy. @.@

Cheers,

Andy

Offline TUF-427

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2014, 01:08:18 PM »
Lookin Good ^^^
Firepower, F14 Tomcat, Terminator2, Twilight Zone, No Fear, TAF, Hyperball, Sttng....

Offline DSB

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2014, 06:47:22 PM »
Nice work! After trying applying decals the wet and dry methods on acrylic lacquer I found the dry method gave me the best result.

Offline andtan

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Re: White Water project
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2014, 06:50:50 PM »
Nice work! After trying applying decals the wet and dry methods on acrylic lacquer I found the dry method gave me the best result.

I'm not really looking forward to the decal application - but I will take your advice and perhaps try the 'dry-method'. Everything so far for me is the 'first time trying' so I generally have the first time nerves to go with it. @@^